Using Sonar with Audiophile..help

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BrettMckinney

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Ok..first time with a sound card capable of 24/96..i just upgraded from an audigy. Now firstly, what drivers are the best to use..i had use mme even when wdm are present ticked and had some wierd sounds, so i unchecked it and did the wave profiler and now using the wdm. It shows way more inputs etc..dont know which to use..have been using AP1/2 or multichannel..dont know the difference.

So what is the best rates to set the project too? I've put it to 24 bit and then 48kz..should i go right up to 96?

Here is the biggest problem. If i record a track..say guitar, then i un-arm it, and arm a new track and record vocals over..the new track has recorded the guitar in it aswell. What causes this? Never happened on the audigy..im guessing its a setting in Sonar? THe other wierd thing is that if i listen to the track in sonar its really loud..and if i take it to Soundforge 6 it sounds way quieter!

Getting very confused. Would appreciate some ideas!
 
So many questions in one post, I'll try to answer some.
1) WDM drivers are good, you can use them
2) Dont worry about the "way more inputs" they are all different channels of specific inputs. Select a stereo input and see if it works.
3) 24bit and 48Khz is pretty good, you don't have to stress the card with 96Khz :)
4) If both your playback (guitar) and tracking (Vocal) waves are recorded in a same channel, well your routing is wrong. Check the input you assigned and see where you are making the mistake. Here is a suggestion to fix it, use the 24/96 card for recording and audigy for playback, so that you wont have any routing problems. Do you have both cards in your system?
5) Regarding your volume, I dont know why there is a difference, export the wave and check it with some media player and find out which one has the problem....either Sonar playing loud (or) Sound forge playing low.
 
Yeah sorry about that...just super keen to put some stuff down and hate having to be held back by little probs..thanks for your reply!

Yeah i do have the audigy still installed. But i cant use it can i? It wont play back the 24 bit files i dont think. I will check the routing but i'm thinking it could actually be something in my mixer setup. I'm using the tape-ins and outs of the mixer to the AP so im most likely creating a loop and its recording whatever it hears.

I'll keep trying. Thanks heaps man
 
I would use the Audiophile for both playback and recording. It's just a better card, so why play back with a card that sounds worse?

And as Jeyan, if you record the guitar over the next track, then there's something wrong with your chain. Can you post it?
 
Ok my chain-

Sp b1 mic->line in 1 mixer-> Tape out L+R to Audiophile->Audiophile line out to Tape in L+R on mixer->Headphones in mixer.

I guess this is where the problem is as after i record the first track, from then on whatever comes into the mixer comes out recorded again. So somehow i need to use different inputs i think. On my mixer i have, Aux sends/returns..should i use them?
 
BrettMckinney said:
Sp b1 mic->line in 1 mixer-> Tape out L+R to Audiophile->Audiophile line out to Tape in L+R on mixer->Headphones in mixer.
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I wouldn't use both tape in and tape out at the same time. There's your loop.

Just bypass the mixer on the way back and you'll be fine...
 
Yeah that the problem! At the moment i've only got a good set of headphones to mix with so i want to hear what im playing and monitor at the same time...never knew it could be so hard. If Soundblaster have anything going for them it that...shouldnt say that.

Funny how soo many people do stuff differently! Use the Main mix outs to the soundcard...nah!..dont do that..use the tapeout..nah use the aux sends. My head is exploding.
 
If you use the Aux sends, you can avoid the signal to get looped back to your computer. Set the aux (two for stereo-recording) to pre-fader, then turn the fader all the way down. Connect the Aux Send to the Line In on the Audiophile. Hit record and play! :)
 
Ok..havnt ever touched on aux usages. Right...soo, My mic is in the first channel, so turn the aux fader clockwise to full. I only have one Aux sends..so its mono right? So plug that into the ins on the soundcard(which is a 6.5 plug for the mixer to 2 rca's for the soundcard) Right?

Dont get what you mean by- "Set the aux (two for stereo-recording)", how do i get two?

So what do you think is best to come back from the sound card? 2 channels or tape in or Aux returns
 
BrettMckinney said:
Ok..havnt ever touched on aux usages. Right...soo, My mic is in the first channel, so turn the aux fader clockwise to full. I only have one Aux sends..so its mono right? So plug that into the ins on the soundcard(which is a 6.5 plug for the mixer to 2 rca's for the soundcard) Right?

Dont get what you mean by- "Set the aux (two for stereo-recording)", how do i get two?

So what do you think is best to come back from the sound card? 2 channels or tape in or Aux returns
Click to expand...
Yes, with one aux all you get is mono (because stereo really is two mono tracks ;)).

After some thinking you can forget about the "set aux to pre-fader". You'll only record what goes out on the aux... And yes, connect the aux to the 2 rca's by some cable.

And on the way back, I wouldn't use aux return. Other than that, the choice is yours. But if you use two channels, then remember to NOT use the aux on those channels. ;)
 
here is the chain I use with my mixer:

Mic---> channel 1 mixer---> Aux send level controls recording volume in 2496---> aux send to 2496 "in"---> 2496 "outs" to channel 3/4 in mixer (keep aux send off)---> main outs to monitors -----> headphones to listen if you want monitors off


this way no loop: using tape send/retrun gives you a loop: everything that comes into the mixer goes out the mains (tape out sends teh mains too) unless your mixer has buttons that affect routing (I usea Behringer Eurorack 602A which doesn't have routing capabilities like that). Using main outs will also give you a loop.

The only way to avoid this loop is to
1) use the Aux sends to record from, and route the return signal back into a regular channel with Aux sends off: downside: you are only recording in mono as the Aux send is mono, UNLESS you have two Aux sends, then one can be set to send L and one can be set to send R, in which case you need your input signal routed to two channels, and pan one left and one right.

2) use two mixers: use main outs to send signal to card, and you get to record in stereo, use other mixer to take the "outs" from the card to monitor what you have already recorded. If you don't wnat to use "input monitoring" then you can use the COntrol room outs from the "input" mixer to send the input signal to a channel on your monitoring board.


As per drivers: I use WDM too, and have just the AP 1/2 highlighted, which gives me the choice of AP L, AP R, AP stereo, or SPDIF L/R/stereo for input sources.
 
cstockdale said:
Mic---> channel 1 mixer---> Aux send level controls recording volume in 2496---> aux send to 2496 "in"---> 2496 "outs" to channel 3/4 in mixer (keep aux send off)---> main outs to monitors -----> headphones to listen if you want monitors off
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And if you have Inserts on your mixer, they can be used. Then there's no way you can doubble-track anymore... :)

Here's my chain:

Mics and instruments -> Soundcraft F1 mixer with 8 Inserts -> Inca88 (8 ins) -> Sonar, with Input Monitoring -> Line In at mixer (2 outs) and Headphone amplifier (6 outs) or external effects (if any in use)...

My soundcard has 8 ins and 8 outs, makes the routing easier for me...
 
Cheers for that guys...i'll give it a go and see what happens! Really appreciate the time in getting me through it. I'll chime back with my progress...here hoping
 
I made an error (in fact I have been doing it this way for 8 months and just figured out last night that I have been limiting myself).

If you bring the soundcard outs to the Tape In, and press 2TK-Control room, and DON"T press 2TK to Main, then you can use the main outs to record into your soundcard and get stereo recording out of it without a loop occuring.

The reason I had not been doing this, is that when you depress the 2TK-->control room button, it cuts the mains out of the earphones, and therefore you can't monitor what you are playing. I originally thought that the only way around this was to use the "Input Monitoring" feature in Sonar (what I record to), but this was unappealing as there is latency with this kind of monitoring: very slight, but enough to significantly screw me up when trying to perform..

Last night, however, I discovered that in the software mixer for the 2496, I could route the Inputs straight back out to the outputs without even having to run through the recording program, therefore no latency, so I don't have to use "Input monitoring" in Sonar. IN the Audiophile Mixer window, under Patchbay Router, in the H/W OUt 1/2, select Monitor Mixer
In the Monitor Mixer page, uncheck all mute switches, and raise all sliders up to Unity (0).

Note: all of this applies to a Behringer Eurorack 602A mixer. If you have two Aux Sends on your board, then the way I have previously described will work, But if you only have 1 Aux send, The way I have described it previously will work, but only give you mono recording capability, this new way will give you the stereo recording option, or Two mono inputs.
 
Last night, however, I discovered that in the software mixer for the 2496, I could route the Inputs straight back out to the outputs without even having to run through the recording program, therefore no latency, so I don't have to use "Input monitoring" in Sonar. IN the Audiophile Mixer window, under Patchbay Router, in the H/W OUt 1/2, select Monitor Mixer
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Well, this does alot of things easier...

And you would have known that if you had read the manual... ;)
 
moskus said:
Well, this does alot of things easier...

And you would have known that if you had read the manual... ;)
Click to expand...

I did read the manual at first, but like all these pieces, it takes a while to really wrap your head around it to know what all the dang things really mean! I have been trying to learn too many things at once: Sonar, Reason, Waves Gold plugins, basic mastering, signal paths, mixer capabilities, soundcard capabilities, plus trying to actually write songs and learn the piano and blah blah blah.....In short, though, 1 year ago I knew NOTHING about digital recording.... (self pat on the back). This site has improved my capabilities and abilities enormously. Time to get a new mix into the MP3 clinic in the next few days....
 
Ok...works fine...very happy. Still have one prob though. The level that is coming into the mixer from the soundcard is too loud when i have my headphones on full. If i turn my headphones to half, then when i sing into my mic i can hardly hear it..i need to have my headphones to full so i can hear the true level of the mic.

But if i turn the level of the soundcards output down, then i wont get a true telling of what my recording level is will i?
 
BrettMckinney said:
But if i turn the level of the soundcards output down, then i wont get a true telling of what my recording level is will i?
Click to expand...
The recording level is dependant of the Input, no the Output. You can turn down the output as much as you want. :)
 
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