Using big condensor as overhead...

[elenore19]

So I have a question...Hell, I'll make a poll for it.

Right now I have 2 little Naiant(sp?) condensers as my overheads on my drums. They get the job done decently and allow me to have the stereo image with the overheads.
I was thinking of not using either of those condensers and just using my big Behringer B-2 Pro diaphragm condenser mic. (yeah, nothing amazing)

It would take away from my stereo image, but I have this feeling that it might sound good. Not sure why, just have a gut feeling. I can't experiment for myself, as I'm at college. It's just curiosity.
So what do you guys think?
yay or nay?

Thanks.


Elliot

 

[ermghoti]

It might. I'm not a fan of the Behri mics, but it's a cardiod pattern, so it'll reject some of the reflections from above and behind.

 

[mshilarious]

Well, the obvious thing to ask is why not try using all of them? But it should be relatively easy to describe the differences.

The B-2 is large-diaphragm switchable pattern. Let's just talk about the cardioid pattern. Have a look at the polar pattern diagram in the spec sheet. It shows a awful lot of variation in response at various frequencies. That is not atypical of large diaphragm microphones. It could mean that you get a lot of variability in the response when striking different cymbals. I cannot say whether that would sound good or bad.

Also, Behri describes the mic as having a 12kHz peak, and they show that in their frequency response spec as well. Whether you want a 12kHz peak depends on your cymbals. A large diaphragm mic will have less transient response than tiny omnis, which will also show up as reduced very high frequency response (>16kHz). A cardioid mic also generally has bass rolloff outside of its proximity zone, so the B-2 should exhibit less "reach" into the kit. That could be good if you are concerned with isolation of close mics, or bad if you don't want to have to rely on close mics.

As for rejection of off-axis sounds, again have a look at the polar pattern diagram. It shows good rejection at only some frequencies and no-so-good at other frequencies. Again, that is typical of large-diaphragm mics. Whether or not the rejection is good enough for your environment would depend on your specifics. But if you are in a situation where you need a really good, tight cardioid pattern, you should look for a pair of small diaphragm cardioid condensers.

 

[elenore19]

Well, the obvious thing to ask is why not try using all of them? But it should be relatively easy to describe the differences.

The B-2 is large-diaphragm switchable pattern. Let's just talk about the cardioid pattern. Have a look at the polar pattern diagram in the spec sheet. It shows a awful lot of variation in response at various frequencies. That is not atypical of large diaphragm microphones. It could mean that you get a lot of variability in the response when striking different cymbals. I cannot say whether that would sound good or bad.

Also, Behri describes the mic as having a 12kHz peak, and they show that in their frequency response spec as well. Whether you want a 12kHz peak depends on your cymbals. A large diaphragm mic will have less transient response than tiny omnis, which will also show up as reduced very high frequency response (>16kHz). A cardioid mic also generally has bass rolloff outside of its proximity zone, so the B-2 should exhibit less "reach" into the kit. That could be good if you are concerned with isolation of close mics, or bad if you don't want to have to rely on close mics.

As for rejection of off-axis sounds, again have a look at the polar pattern diagram. It shows good rejection at only some frequencies and no-so-good at other frequencies. Again, that is typical of large-diaphragm mics. Whether or not the rejection is good enough for your environment would depend on your specifics. But if you are in a situation where you need a really good, tight cardioid pattern, you should look for a pair of small diaphragm cardioid condensers.

I can't use all 3 due to limited channels.

But thanks for the info. Sounds like I should stick with the naiants and then save up for better small diaphragm condensors?

 

[TelePaul]

I can't use all 3 due to limited channels.

But thanks for the info. Sounds like I should stick with the naiants and then save up for better small diaphragm condensors?

Lol you know MsHilarious IS Naiant, right?

 

[tojo]

holy crap everyone talks about naint mics around here. I'm going to have to buy one or something or at least check them out.

i've also used a LDC as an overhead. But I used it to pick up the whole kit, haha i only had one mic at the time. It sounded ok. I'd go for the stereo image, and do what you gotta do to post process the sound to make it better if you can

 

[Elton Bear]

$0.02

Sounds like I should stick with the naiants and then save up for better small diaphragm condensors?

I've heard good things about Naiants, and some great recordings using them; I'd stick with them and save for a better LDC, Behringer are good value for a n00b (not meant derogatively), but if you're serious about recording you'll need to replace it fairly soon.

IMHO of course.

 

[Steve Moser]

Try Karma micros. Great mics for $5 apiece. Great other mics there too!

http://www.seemics.com/products.html

 

[elenore19]

Try Karma micros. Great mics for $5 apiece. Great other mics there too!

http://www.seemics.com/products.html

$5 a piece? where?

 

[MachineGunMace]

dont do it

do not even spend 100 on a behringer mic. save and get a better mic if your going for a large condenser. i would suggest just upgrading to 2 condensers for overheads and then putting a large diaphragm condenser 2 inches up and to the other side of the bass drum and 3/4 foot away from your bass drum. and then do the same with your toms. ive experimented with it with some mid budget mics and its works pretty good depending on how your kit sounds

 

[mshilarious]

Try Karma micros. Great mics for $5 apiece. Great other mics there too!

http://www.seemics.com/products.html

The K-micro is up to $10 and some change, but be aware the specs listed on that mic are inaccurate. It is an omnidirectional mic with self-noise in the 25dBA range, and SPL handling (1% THD) about 116dBSPL. That's better than the original ($5) version, which was advertised at 125dBSPL, but could only manage about 94dBSPL . . .

 

[elenore19]

do not even spend 100 on a behringer mic. save and get a better mic if your going for a large condenser. i would suggest just upgrading to 2 condensers for overheads and then putting a large diaphragm condenser 2 inches up and to the other side of the bass drum and 3/4 foot away from your bass drum. and then do the same with your toms. ive experimented with it with some mid budget mics and its works pretty good depending on how your kit sounds

Did you read my whole post?
I don't think so.
So there's no Not buying it.
I already own the Behringer.
But I'll consider your advice.
Thanks!

Elliot

 

[dgatwood]

Try Karma micros. Great mics for $5 apiece. Great other mics there too!

http://www.seemics.com/products.html

Been there, done that. They freaking clipped when using them as a piano mic... from halfway across the room.... Okay, I'm exaggerating a little, but not much. The Naiants kick their buts every day and twice on Sunday. Or perhaps mine was just bad. Hard to say.

The K-micro is up to $10 and some change, but be aware the specs listed on that mic are inaccurate. It is an omnidirectional mic with self-noise in the 25dBA range, and SPL handling (1% THD) about 116dBSPL. That's better than the original ($5) version, which was advertised at 125dBSPL, but could only manage about 94dBSPL . . .

I think mine must have been bad. It clipped at somewhere in the 70-odd dBSPL (A weighted) ballpark....

As far as your mics go, omnis like the Naiant mics won't get you much stereo separation unless you do a spaced pair; if you like the sound of a spaced pair, they're perfectly reasonable mics. Personally, I prefer the sound of an X/Y coincident pair. YMMV.

I probably would not recommend going with the Behringer LDC. Large diaphragms will tend to smear the transients too much and won't have very good stereo imaging even in pairs. Plus that mic will probably sound harsh as heck on the cymbals. Just a gut feeling.

Anyway, my advice would be to stick with the Naiant mics until you can upgrade to something more ideal for overhead use, e.g. a pair of Oktava MK-012 mics. IMHO, for overheads, you should generally use a cardioid pattern (but not too tight) small diaphragm condenser. Just my $0.02. You might also try a Blumlein coincident pair of ribbons if you ever find yourself with a pair of ribbon mics on your hands....

 

[Supercreep]

Why can't you experiment?

If you can play the drums, you can experiment.

If I could, I would use both the SDCs and the single LDC.

I have had good luck using SP B1s as overheads, and would love to have a second AT 4050 for spaced pair of omni mics.

Experimentation is the way to go, since we don't have your drums, your room, your drummer, or your mixing skills.

YMMV

 

[elenore19]

Why can't you experiment?

If you can play the drums, you can experiment.
...
Experimentation is the way to go, since we don't have your drums, your room, your drummer, or your mixing skills.
YMMV

I can't experiment for myself, as [size=+2]I'm at college.[/size]

I said I can't experiment for a reason. Because that's what EVERYONE tells everyone to do here. Not that I'm saying it's bad. Experimenting is the best way. But I can't experiment, that's why I put it in the main post. I'm at college. No set that I can use. I don't have my recording space, my recording gear, etc.

If I could, I would use both the SDCs and the single LDC.

I can't use all 3 due to channel restrictions.

 

[Supercreep]

I said I can't experiment for a reason. Because that's what EVERYONE tells everyone to do here. Not that I'm saying it's bad. Experimenting is the best way. But I can't experiment, that's why I put it in the main post. I'm at college. No set that I can use. I don't have my recording space, my recording gear, etc.

I can't use all 3 due to channel restrictions.

I apologize, I misunderestimated your post to mean you had some kind of existential reason you couldn't test the mics - not that you were physically unable to test them because of your relative proximity. I played drums all the time at college.

In your case, I'd be looking at a single LDC with a decent comp plug.