Using backing tracks live...

J

Johnny Don't!

New member
Hey kids. So while I'm not a newbie to this forum or to recording itself, I *AM* new to the idea of using backing tracks during a live show. I have used them sparsely in a previous band I was in, but it was only for a synth track and a drum loop.

I've started a new band and am having a TON of trouble finding a qualified bassist who is available at the level to which we need one, so the idea of having someone play the bass parts in-studio (to a tempo map, obviously) when we record next month and then using those bass tracks live as backing tracks came up.

I tend to be a traditionalist when it comes to playing live, meaning I want live musicians playing with me onstage, but if worse comes to worst, we might be forced to use bass backing tracks. So my question is, to all the musicians on this site, what are your thoughts/feelings/opinions on a live band using backing tracks for bass? Do you think it will take away from the live performances? Will it be cheesy? Will it affect the audience's enjoyment of the show?

Any input would be deeply appreciated.
 
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I don't have a lot of experience with this but I'm thinking a backing track with bass only is going to be a nightmare to follow, especially on stage somewhere.
Drums and bass, sure, but bass only? I don't see it happening.

Sorry if I misunderstood at all.
 
Ah, I guess I should have been clearer: the bass backing track will be played via a DAW that will feed a click to our drummer, so he's the only one who has to follow the backing track/click; we will follow him.

We're also considering programming MIDI CCs to control our Line6 multieffects units for our guitars, as well as the effects & harmonies on the TC Helicon VoiceLive2 I will use on my vocals. Then down the road, we'll also include lighting cues & programs for a light show, maybe even video clips too.

Does that clear things up a bit?
 
They only answer is to get some loops and try it out.
You should be able to determine if it'll work for you....
 
If your drummer is on IEMs then it should be fine. But with wedges the click will bleed into drum mics etc.

Once you're on IEMs you really need to consider bringing your own mixer and mic splitter, and once you do that you need your own mic kit so you don't have to mess with gain, eq etc. from show to show.
 
I would use some sort of player that used solid state media, like USB sticks or SD cards, rather than a DAW. Put the click on the left channel and bass on the right channel. Don't use an iPod Nano as they apparently can switch left and right channels.
 
This is actually the intent of Ableton live and the APC 40. You have a lot more control of the loops and if someone has a freehand, like a keyboard player, it is easier to work into the set, make changes, etc. The software is on the high side, but the lite version might be all you need.

Just a thought.
 
Why use loops live for this? It seems like they just need reliable 2-track playback.

I would render each song to a stereo file with bass on one side and click on the other. Then I'd make an audio CD of the set, and put it on a USB drive and an iPod. Add a stereo DI box, like the Whirlwind pcDI, and you can overcome almost any technical impediment. Oh, and adding 20 seconds of silence to the end of each song can be helpful, so the next song doesn't start before you can cue the player.
 
The use of click tracks to adding backing tracks is pretty common in musical theatre and can work well if the musicians practice with it a bit.

We tend to use the phrase "click track" generically but, in fact, there can be vast differences of what the musicians (in your case the drummer). In some cases an actual click works; more often (in my experience) their own voice counting beats can work better. Other times (though likely not here) a keyboard version of the main melody is used.

I'll second the recommendation of Ableton Lite. It's designed to do exactly what you want and does it well.
 
WTF sort of bassist are you looking for?
Another virtuoso Tal Wingfeld or sommat?

I played bass a lifetime ago (still have the odd twang!) and if the guy can follow the chords and keep in time, the punters won't care.

Dave.
 
Ah, I see.
Well if the drummer is happy to, and can, follow a click then it should work just fine.
I agree with the idea of playing back from some kinda of solid media rather than a live DAW, just incase.

ecc83 said:
WTF sort of bassist are you looking for?
Another virtuoso Tal Wingfeld or sommat?

I played bass a lifetime ago (still have the odd twang!) and if the guy can follow the chords and keep in time, the punters won't care.

Dave.
Click to expand...

This is true enough. Without disrespecting any bassists, it's often that's very forgiving in a live setting.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
I would use some sort of player that used solid state media, like USB sticks or SD cards, rather than a DAW. Put the click on the left channel and bass on the right channel. Don't use an iPod Nano as they apparently can switch left and right channels.
Click to expand...

i agree with this post about using not using a DAW. i would however put the backing tracks on both left and right, with the click track for intros and timing only on one side that will feed the monitors. my reasoning is the the players will need to hear the bass track as well for cues, getting in the pocket with etc. the track without the click goes to FOH mains.
 
Tom Hicks said:
i agree with this post about using not using a DAW. i would however put the backing tracks on both left and right, with the click track for intros and timing only on one side that will feed the monitors. my reasoning is the the players will need to hear the bass track as well for cues, getting in the pocket with etc. the track without the click goes to FOH mains.
Click to expand...

Why? Just turn the bass channel up in monitors as needed. That's what mixers are for: mixing.
 
I'm the only musician in my circumstance. I basically record myself playing (or midi'ing) everything in my arsenal. My earbud gets the click to keep me going when I'm playing alone, and then stops when there's drums/something else playing. I just play guitar/bass/piano/keys and sing. :guitar:
 
Do some research on an Austrailian band called Newsboys. They've been doing what your talking about for a decade (their keyboardist plays the bass parts) with all the lights and effects and such midi controlled. In the eighties, you'd have been lynched for it, but today, what the hey!
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Why? Just turn the bass channel up in monitors as needed. That's what mixers are for: mixing.
Click to expand...

general principal. other people are going to be doing a similar thing with backing tracks where its not just pre-recorded bass alone going to the board, but perhaps horns, keys, misc percussion etc. as well.

so one side of the stereo feed for the crowd with no click in it, and the other side of the stereo feed for the monitor sends that includes the click track for the performers. make sense?

you could theoretically use a DAW with a multitrack interface to send the board separate tracks for each instrument through the snake, and let the FOH guy mix them all, assuming that's what you want and that you have enough channels for them on the board. but its far simpler to get all your levels and any effects etc set before-hand, and just give the sound guy one channel of backing tracks (minus click) to blend with the live sounds,and one channel (with the click) for the performers.

there are no rules about it though, since there are multiple ways to get the task done.
 
I learned that I want three outputs (especially for small venues) One to the crowd, one to the monitors, and one in my ear (also a monitor, I suppose) because the click is very audible (especially up front) when going through stage monitors. I use both because if I run my vocals straight into my ear it's distracting for some reason.
So if your drummer has headphones or an in-ear monitor (like I use) He can get his mix through a separate aux with the click and you guys can get your monitor mix (or mixes) the normal way.
 
Tom Hicks said:
general principal. other people are going to be doing a similar thing with backing tracks where its not just pre-recorded bass alone going to the board, but perhaps horns, keys, misc percussion etc. as well.
Click to expand...

Who cares what "other people" do? And this is just bass and click.

Tom Hicks said:
so one side of the stereo feed for the crowd with no click in it, and the other side of the stereo feed for the monitor sends that includes the click track for the performers. make sense?
Click to expand...

Have you ever used a mixer? They're good at mixing things, like the click with the bass in the drum monitor. I know because I've mixed live several thousand times.

Tom Hicks said:
you could theoretically use a DAW with a multitrack interface to send the board separate tracks for each instrument through the snake, and let the FOH guy mix them all, assuming that's what you want and that you have enough channels for them on the board. but its far simpler to get all your levels and any effects etc set before-hand, and just give the sound guy one channel of backing tracks (minus click) to blend with the live sounds,and one channel (with the click) for the performers.
Click to expand...

None of that changes the fact that, for a simple backing track like the OP's, it can be done just as easily and with more options with the click on its own track. Perhaps if the backing tracks had more instruments and the monitor mix of those instruments was different from the FOH mix, but that's not the case here. What does the guy mixing do if the drummer wants more click and less bass in his mix? What about someone who wants just a little click to get him through a stop? There is little benefit to premixing and many advantages to not premixing.

Tom Hicks said:
there are no rules about it though, since there are multiple ways to get the task done.
Click to expand...

Some ways have clear advantages over others. The only advantage of premixing the bass and click would be if the person mixing is incompetent, but then there will be more serious problems with the show.
 
i'm good with you doing things the way you want to. hopefully, you would agree that there are multiple ways to accomplish the same basic task.

i started mixing live in clubs for my brother's band back in the early 70s. over the years, club and small festival dates is where i got my soundman experience.click on my soundcloud link for example of tracks i have recorded, mixed and performed on. thanks for your interest!
 
Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest you weren't capable and experienced. What surprises me is that the benefit of keeping the bass and click on separate tracks isn't obvious.
 
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