Urgent: Tascam MS-16 / MSR-16 / ATR-60 ?

[gilwe]

Well, had a talk with the MSR guy, there are 25 reels I can have plus a few syncronizer he has, TWO of them is a Tascam ES50 (SMPTE??) and Tascam MTS30 Midi-to-tape sync (which doesn't worth much, hate midi clock syncronizers, need SMPTE)

He bought it second hand from a guy of whom it was the second machine he owned (this is where all 25 reels from)

I guess it is well used, but will be able to have it for a few days to test it before I buy.

I also found that the Tascam is probably a 85-16B and not an ATR ... does that makes a different story ?...

 

[The Ghost of FM]

I also found that the Tascam is probably a 85-16B and not an ATR ... does that makes a different story ?...

That model is a much older one from the late 70's and based on a one inch tape format.

It would offer -10db unbalanced, RCA pin jack connections and had dbx and remote auto-locators as an optional features which are very handy to have so be sure it comes with them as they are next to impossible to find alone these days for sale.

Issues of wear and tear on the heads and all the other parts would be more of a concern.

I own and use a MS16 which is also a one inch machine and offers both unbalanced and balanced connections and came with all the optional accessories mentioned above. At this point mine is 17 years old and works and sounds wonderful but it has required service over the years and I budgeted for that when I bought mine back in the mid 90's and paid $3500.00 Canadian for it. It's original retail was 20g's with all the accessories here in Toronto so, to me, it seemed like a great deal at the time of purchase.

Cheers!

 

[Beck]

Beck, do you think it really sounds as good or better than older 8 track 1/2" machines ?? Is it in the newer technology and electronics ?

Say such a machine is used on everyday basis a few hours a day in a pro studio, how many years can the head take ?

Thanks

For comparison I can say the MSR-16 beats the Tascam 38 and 80-8, Fostex R8 and B/E/G-16. Its due in part to head design, electronics, and a micro controlled transport. The on-board dbx is also very well integrated with the system. Both the MSR-16 and TSR-8 got rave reviews for their tight dbx systems that left the sound virtually unaffected by the usual pumping and breathing associated with dbx.

That being said, I like the Fostex E-16 with its Dolby C nearly as well.

Granted, 16 tracks on 1/2" tape is really squeezing things together compared to the way things were done before. But many years of R&D on Tascam's part made it work. If you remember the Tascam 388, it sounded incredible at half the speed of the MSR-16 with same track width.

Estimating head life by hours of use is not really an exact science. One clue to look for is the type of tape used. Head wear occurs because tape is abrasive, with Ampex 406 being less abrasive than 456, and 456 being less abrasive than 499 or GP9. What type are the 25 tapes that come with the machine? If someone used 499 for the life of the machine I would probably pass on buying it.

Before you try to predict how long the heads will last you should know how they are doing now. If you can, put a tape on the machine and record some material on each of the 16 tracks at 0 vu. You want to see the playback level on the meters at approximately the same level as what you recorded. A 1kHz test tone would be ideal. Uneven levels on some tracks can indicate uneven headwear.

Here are a couple good links (with pictures) that explain better than I can what to look for when examining tape heads.

http://www.jrfmagnetics.com/headtrip.html

http://www.jrfmagnetics.com/tapeheadintro.html

I should add that I have a general rule to steer clear of production machines from pro studios because they are probably well worn. I keep my eye open for gear bought by rich kids that never really used it much back in the day. There are still quite a few barely used TSR-8s and MSR-16s out there.

My second-hand TSR-8 was used by a band that never really figured it out. It sat in storage for years and the heads looked new. All it needed was new rubber (belt and pinch roller), which can actually deteriorate more from lack of use.

Best of luck

 

[Han]

Han, you can tell anything about it sync capabilities ? I can get a tascam dedicated syncronizer with it. not sure which model though...

I have an ES50/51 sync box that works with SMPTE. The MSR is master and the (slave) 2" Otari machine runs like a charm.

You can also use the ES as a remote for the slave machine.

 

[gilwe]

I inspected the MSR-16 today.

It had a few problems -

1. The first (and the worst) problem is hat the guy who bought it (second hand from a pro studio) has probably tried to clean the counter roller (the one on the right side of the machine, with the slotted rubber) using some dissolving material, which totally dissolved the rubber. As I squeezed the rubber surface, it all melted !!! can't see how the guy was using the machine for so long this way ......

2. It was all dirted as the studio is placed at a very dusted area.

3. Head looked quite OK. Following the instructions Beck has linked, I found the the head was OK, had a even pattern over it.

4. It looks like he has never cleaned and of the heads or rollers.... some black material was left here and there. Cleaned that with alchohol.


I didn't check it further as it didn't look good to me anyway.