Urgent Drum Miking Question

[saads]

Haha, ok. Don't take all of it down. Maybe some of it. And look up a few pictures of the recorderman. It's a very simple and effective method. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to get a decent sound. And you mentioned moving the overhead shoulder mic. You can't really do that. The mic should be pointing down to the center of the snare, and the other one at the same distance, but just above the floor tom, somewhat horizontal.

 

[RAMI]

Brand new drums that are rockin' acoustically.

Cool. Then you're halfway there, regardless of the room.

The only other thing I can suggest it to experiment with distance, etc....Maybe try to "eliminate" the room as much as possible bringing your overheads as low as you can without getting in the drummer's way??? Anything's worth a try.

 

[jeliot86]

I put my mic right over the snare and get the second mic the exact same distance from the snare as the first mic.

yep that's how I started my setup but I soon realized that the second mic was now closer to the kick than the first mic. I then watched this video and saw using the string from....... KICK to MIC (a) to SNARE should be equal to KICK to MIC (b) to SNARE which really screwed my second mic position

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiFOD1EeKhQ

 

[Greg_L]

I think recorderman is the best setup for a bad room.

 

[RAMI]

yep that's how I started my setup but I soon realized that the second mic was now closer to the kick than the first mic. I then watched this video and saw using the string from....... KICK to MIC (a) to SNARE should be equal to KICK to MIC (b) to SNARE which really screwed my second mic position

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiFOD1EeKhQ

I don't bother with the kik. I put one over the snare and the other one near the floor tom and measure those 2 to the snare.

 

[jeliot86]

Thanks, I was thinking the same thing from the beginning. Maybe I should go more direct miking approach and bring up the OH's to taste rather than Using the OH's mainly and bring up the Snare / Kick ect.....to taste.

 

[saads]

If you hate the room so much maybe you could record the drums without the cymbals. Close mic the toms, snare, and bass. Then add cymbals later. I never do that but maybe it could work for you? It would get a more closer sound and eliminate some of the room sound you don't want.

 

[jeliot86]

Thanks guys for all the suggestions, I have a good plan in place I think. now it's time to record. I'll post some stuff possibly tonight and maybe get your thought's on the sound before going into recording any final takes.

 

[jeliot86]

P.s........

When I post some clips, would it be better to post WITH or WITHOUT the music?

 

[saads]

With, to see how it goes with the song.

 

[ez_willis]

I guess my main question is, should I be steering away from a more overhead driven approach and to a more direct miking technique because of the size and deadness of the room.

yes. my room is small and dead. i close mic everything and use the overheads to capture the cymbals more than anything.

 

[ez_willis]

When I post some clips, would it be better to post WITH or WITHOUT the music?

both, if possible. it's more imporant to have the drums sounding good with all the other tracks.

 

[ez_willis]

yes. my room is small and dead. i close mic everything and use the overheads to capture the cymbals more than anything.

but in all honesty, do whatever rami and greg tells you to do.

 

[RAMI]

but in all honesty, do whatever rami and greg tells you to do.

Actually, in this case, EZ and Greg would be the guys to listen to.


Greg already mentioned close micing earlier in the thread, and EZ makes great recordings in a very small room using mostly close mics for his sound.

 

[jeliot86]

Well Here is the First Take (with music)

Mic's

5 channel's
Recorderman's Technique for Overheads - NT5's
Kick Mic - RE20
Bottom Snare Mic - Beta 58
Room Mic (out in front of kit slammed with PICO 500 compressor and Purple ODD EQ to taste)

I added a little reverb to just the bottom snare mic and some PSP Vintage warmer on the Overall Drum buss to add a little punch.

Beware this mix is in now way finished. I'm really worried about the snare we had such a hard time getting enough snare sound out of it without his Hi Mid Tom setting of the snare everytime he hit it. Spent a whole night just trying to tune this problem away!!! It also looks like I'm definitely going to have to mic the TOMS like you guys metioned.

Here's the link
http://soundcloud.com/jeliot/drum-test-music

 

[jeliot86]

2nd Mix

Here's the mix with no music. I left the PSP warmer in on accident. The snare ring is killing me but he refuses to put the Moon jell on and I can't say I blame him after I ruined the original drums with muffles....

Again we are having a lot of trouble with this Brand new kit getting the snares loose enough to breath without the Hi Mid tom setting them off, and I mean so bad at one point I could not tell the tom from the snare

Again guys thank for the help its been much appreciated.

P.S. I don't bruise easy so let the ridicule FLY!!!!

http://soundcloud.com/jeliot/drum-test-no-music-completely-dry

 

[xaqmusic]

Here's the mix with no music. I left the PSP warmer in on accident. The snare ring is killing me but he refuses to put the Moon jell on and I can't say I blame him after I ruined the original drums with muffles....

Again we are having a lot of trouble with this Brand new kit getting the snares loose enough to breath without the Hi Mid tom setting them off, and I mean so bad at one point I could not tell the tom from the snare

Again guys thank for the help its been much appreciated.

P.S. I don't bruise easy so let the ridicule FLY!!!!

http://soundcloud.com/jeliot/drum-test-no-music-completely-dry

Hi, All! New member here and I hope you don't mind me jumping in. I think those drum tracks are usable if mixed properly. I hear great tone but no power in the recording. However that can be fixed by mixing gated (very tight) versions of each of your close mics into the overall drum mix. That way you have very strong transients while maintaining the nice tone that you have now. I love Pork Pie drums! That way you can actually use the ringyness of the snare to your advantage by mixing it down into the track while the gated version punches you in the face. The same can be done for the kick and toms as needed. Right now the overheads are balanced too loud. You should be able to bring them down a little and still have all the detail you want. The PSP Vintage warmer was a good choice!
The rest is good balancing. Good Luck!

 

[Greg_L]

Here's the mix with no music. I left the PSP warmer in on accident. The snare ring is killing me but he refuses to put the Moon jell on and I can't say I blame him after I ruined the original drums with muffles....

Again we are having a lot of trouble with this Brand new kit getting the snares loose enough to breath without the Hi Mid tom setting them off, and I mean so bad at one point I could not tell the tom from the snare

Again guys thank for the help its been much appreciated.

P.S. I don't bruise easy so let the ridicule FLY!!!!

http://soundcloud.com/jeliot/drum-test-no-music-completely-dry

It sounds okay. The snare ring isn't noticeable in the full mix. It sounds like you captured them pretty well. Everything sounds tight though. The kick, toms, snare - all have this tuned too tight feel to them. There's no punch.

 

[jeliot86]

Hi, All! New member here and I hope you don't mind me jumping in. I think those drum tracks are usable if mixed properly. I hear great tone but no power in the recording. However that can be fixed by mixing gated (very tight) versions of each of your close mics into the overall drum mix. That way you have very strong transients while maintaining the nice tone that you have now. I love Pork Pie drums! That way you can actually use the ringyness of the snare to your advantage by mixing it down into the track while the gated version punches you in the face. The same can be done for the kick and toms as needed. Right now the overheads are balanced too loud. You should be able to bring them down a little and still have all the detail you want. The PSP Vintage warmer was a good choice!
The rest is good balancing. Good Luck!

Jump in anytime... I need all the help I can get. We are going to add Tom mic's tonight and do another take. I think gating the direct mic's is going to make a huge difference too! Once I master using a gate, everytime I have ever tried to use them they come out sound unatural but maybe mixed with the overheads it won't matter.

 

[jeliot86]

The kick, toms, snare - all have this tuned too tight feel to them. There's no punch.

So you think I should tune them all down a notch to open them up a little. I believe we tried to tune the bottom head of the snare to an A and the top to a C.