Does this drum recording WITHOUT proper mics sound okay?

D

delirium trigge

New member
Ignore the mess ups in the drumming. I didn't really try to play anything, I just wanted to test the recording. I recorded this with a Zoom H6 with the M/S mic in front of the kit. Into the H6 an SM57 is on the snare drum, an E906 is on the floor tom, A rode NT-1000 is on the left cymbals right above the toms, a Samson C05 CL live condenser mic is about 6 inches from the bass drum, a Zoom h4n with it's stock XY mic's are on the right side of the drum kit right above the crashes and ride.

I want to know with this set up if you see any improvements I need to make. I used the new vintage compressor that just came in the Logic update a few weeks ago. I EQ'd every drum and the Master. The kick drum has a ton of bass and sounds really good to me but I have a massive subwoofer for my studio. If I turn the subwoofer off and go by the Rokit 6 monitors I have, the bass does not sound that great, (even though online people say they are low end heavy,) but when I listen to professional recordings and turn the subwoofer off, it doesn't sound that great there either. So, I am not sure if I am doing the bass correct. I don't want to EQ it so it just sounds awesome for people with a set up like mine. Should I copy and paste the bass drum and EQ it twice? One for low and one for mid? My Rokit 6's are set flat and they don't have hardly any bass. I use the SBX10 M audio subwoofer which is huge, I barely have it up and it shakes the walls. The bass drum for the bass drum mic is around 50 to 60hz. Although I have the bass drum a little higher as it shows up in the other mic's as well. I EQ'd it out of some of them but couldn't due to the toms on the left Rode NT-1000. The stereo image in front from the M/S mic is turned to +6 meaning wide image.

I have thought about getting a bass drum mic, but with my system this mic seems to sound better on my bass drum than when I recorded at a professional studio with a dynamic mic. The large diaphragm condenser does not sound great on the bass drum but this looks like a dynamic mic, but it's not. It's a live condenser and it can get closer and is less sensitive. That is why it's that close to the bass drum. The snare drum may sound too high but it's not my regular drum it's a pork pie little squealer. I tried to EQ it the best I could.

I took the memory cards out of both Zoom's and transferred the files to Logic. Because the drums are in a different room and I don't want to carry a computer and saffire pro 40 in there. The screen capture make the audio sound a bit more distorted than it sounds on the actual mix due to the software used.

Also, I am looking for what you guys recommend for the two rack toms. I have the e906 on the floor tom and SM57 on the snare. The two toms are being picked up by the left condenser mic which is overhead but not high, and the XY mic on the right side. I would like to EQ those toms individually. I have the capsule for my Zoom h6 to fit in 6 microphones, plus the Zoom h4n fits two mics, plus XY. I do have even more condenser mic's but they are large diaphragm and I figured it wouldn't be good to be directly on the tom.

I wanted to buy the Shure Beta bass drum mic, but I have recorded with it in studio's before and honestly it does not sound as good as this 70 dollar live condenser Samson C05 CL mic to my ears. The bass is a lot thicker with this.

Any other idea's would be appreciated. The two other condenser mic's I have not in use are the Blue Yeti Pro and the Rode NT-1A. Also, these are the pre amps on the Zoom h6, It accepts +4 signals from external pre amps. I have a large one in my rack but I also have two smaller one's that could go in the drum room. Would it really make much of a difference? The small ones are the FMR audio, really nice pre amp persons blue tube.
Video Below:

 
I don't hear a lot of low end so your monitoring setup is likely too strong in the lows. You need accurate monitoring, not hyped.

I'm pretty sure I'm hearing phase interactions between the mics. It sounds to me like there are too many distant mics. One pair of overheads is enough. I like X-Y. It doesn't work for every kit or style but it does simplify dealing with phase. I would start by cutting down on the number of mics and focusing on basics, then add more later.
 
How do I hear if it's in phase or not? Usually that cancels something out doesn't it? I can't hear where it's out of phase. Show me what you mean.
 
Boulder said it already.

The kick has no low end to it. A lot of beater sound.
It's not the worst thing ever and I'm sure that you could make some decent recordings with this sound. You can always trigger the kick. Or buy better mics. You can get a pretty damn good drum sound with a generic setup of an SM57 on the snare and AKG D112 on the kick and some overheads.
Most likely you can get a much better kick sound with better mic positioning.
 
I think it's because I EQed all the low end to my subwoofer. Like I said when I turn the subwoofer off I don't get as much low end. I need to EQ one for a higher frequency in the low end instead of being so low that one needs a big subwoofer for it to sound great.

The way it sounds on my system also has that beater sound (because I do that on purpose) but it has a ton of low end along with that beater sound. I like the quick beater pop sound like you hear in a lot of metal bands, not the "boom" but the pop on the subwoofer is really low, without it, not so much.

I have heard worse from death metal bands where the kick drum even with a subwoofer sounds like they are hitting a piece of wood or something and there is no low end.

Believe it or not this sounds better than the studio I recorded at which is a well known studio in Nashville. I used their drum kit, they had no pillow in it so it didn't have that beater/click sound. And they EQ'd it sorta like I did, so you can feel it in the subwoofer, but you can't actually hear it. And it's a metal song. Through the chorus I am running the double bass really fast and you can't hear my bass drum at all, you can only feel it. I like that mid range bass sound that you can hear, but also with the feel I'm getting from the sub.

I think I'm gonna try to copy and paste it and keep one EQ'd like it is, and EQ one in the 100hz range for low end. Right now it's at about 60, if you got something that goes down to 60 you'll see what I mean the low end is huge.
 
you need to pay attention to the meters, they are coloured green, amber and red for a reason! all I can see here is red and virtually zero dynamic range, that's why it sounds thin because you are overloading and clipping on the master bus, it takes away the warmth
 
Btyre2013 said:
you need to pay attention to the meters, they are coloured green, amber and red for a reason! all I can see here is red and virtually zero dynamic range, that's why it sounds thin because you are overloading and clipping on the master bus, it takes away the warmth
Click to expand...

That's not true. The Meter is well under the yellow and I put an Ad limiter on it to bring it up to -01 for listening purposes. It was just a test I'm not gonna have it mastered. It's not recorded past -12, and then I turn all the faders down. Then I put on the compressors, use some make up gain, turn down the slider a little more.

Then I run it into a bus, which is Aux 1 you see, the compressor has a limiter on it, it's purposely brought up for listening purposes. Then on output there is an ad limiter, purposely brought up for listening purposes. If I took those limiters off the output is nowhere near the red.

I'm getting the bass dynamic range with the subwoofer, I have now eqed it higher to get it in my speakers. There is not much dynamic range on the snare, it's compressed fairly heavily, so are the other condensers and bass drum.

Instead of looking at the red in the video look at the plug in. Or else I would have posted it and you'd have to turn your speakers all the way up to hear it.

Again it doesn't sound thin on my end, the toms and bass drum are heavy, however they don't sound as heavy without the sub. But if I go turn on another recording without my sub from a professional band it's not that much thicker there either. Not considering the master. I'm not talking about boomy rock bass drums. Metal bass drums. Trigger sounding.
 
Your monitors are not giving you good information about your mix. Subs can be tricky to set up for accurate monitoring. It's often tempting to turn them up so you can feel the bass, but that just makes you mix the bass too low.
 
"I EQ'd every drum and the Master"/"I used the new vintage compressor"

???

Before you do any of that, work with the mic placement. Especially if your room is not ideal.

I would suggest posting the drums with no effects (including eq/compression) if you wish for an honest opinion.

We all know what drums sound like in a less than ideal situation. Giving advice on something that has already been messed with is not going to help you much.

I can't tell if there are phase issues because of the mic placement or because of extreme eq/compression. May not be able to tell without but at least we could rule one or two things out.

:)
 
jimmys69 said:
"I EQ'd every drum and the Master"/"I used the new vintage compressor"

???

Before you do any of that, work with the mic placement. Especially if your room is not ideal.

I would suggest posting the drums with no effects (including eq/compression) if you wish for an honest opinion.

We all know what drums sound like in a less than ideal situation. Giving advice on something that has already been messed with is not going to help you much.

I can't tell if there are phase issues because of the mic placement or because of extreme eq/compression. May not be able to tell without but at least we could rule one or two things out.

:)
Click to expand...

Well the mics that are on the drums are just like they are supposed to be. The over head XY and the Left/Tom condenser mic can't really be placed where I'd place a proper set of drum mics because I don't have as many. The bass drum mic sounds good. I have changed the EQ to make it better without sub.

If I don't EQ it and use compressors it will sound like crap. The slower attack time on the compressor is what makes the snare sound good. The bass and tom at ratio of 6:1 and I bring up the threshold until I get the right sound. If I use no compressor, it literally sounds like I recorded it with one mic or something.

I can post it with no effects, but you won't be able to hear much. It just sounds like a bunch of condensers in a room with a snare mic and a tom mic. Snare and tom sound like what you'd think, with the other condensers I EQ in and out things on different ones, including the bass drum to get it to that sound.

I pulled up a Chimaira song on my studio monitors, they do a lot of double bass. I turned the subwoofer off. The bass in my first mix for whatever reason sounds better than his. At least mine has some mids, I can literally barely hear his but then when I turn the sub on his obviously sounds better than mine.

I'm not seeing how people are mixing with 6 inch monitors on flat with no sub. There doesn't seem to be any way to tell how much bass there is. There is more bass going on in computer speakers. Obviously monitors are meant to be flat, but I'm not used to adjusting bass on something so flat. Because it doesn't matter where I put the EQ it's either too low to hear or it sounds like that first mix. Now I have made a compromise of both.

To me that condenser on the bass drum sounds better than the dynamics I've used in the studio. But I guess it's because of the way the low end is so tight on it, and it has that metal sound. But it doesn't to people without a subwoofer is the problem.

I may end up just having to buy a bass drum mic and two more SM57's for the two toms instead of a condenser for that. Use the XY on the ZOOM as room mics, or the NT-1000 and NT-1A. I like all the low end I'm getting that's tight from the condensers though, on the top toms and bass drum.

I don't think the Rokit 6's have enough low end to properly see what's going on. With the sub they sound amazing. They sound better than the RP8's. But without the sub I can't even tell if the bass guitar is running over my guitar or not.

I have adjusted the cross over on the sub a little bit so maybe I won't EQ it wrong again. It says the KRK's drop off at 80hz but when I pulled up an 70hz sign wave I could hear it, but it sounds like mids.
 
Keep in mind also, the point of this is an attempt of doing it without drum mics. I still think it's sounding pretty decent even against some drum mics. Although all advice will be looked at. I just have to make sure it's right advice. I have a friend who is in a well known band, this band is known for their guitar tone in metal. People wanted to have just the guitar tracks with no bass or drums. He posted it, on a forum, asking what people thought about it, the same guitar tone people were raving about, on the forum they said, "Sounds like a toy." Bashed them left and right of how horrid it was. Yet, if he posted it was from that album, they praise it.

So I'm looking for whatever advise, that looks at this as recording drums without any drum mics and making it sound decent enough to demo with.
 
I forgot to mention the reverb and a small bit of pre delay. I knew that it wasn't out of phase, it was lined up the right way. That's why it has that kind of sound I believe. I'm comparing it to some others on youtube, it still sounds pretty decent to me considering what it is.
 
If your drums don't sound fine before compression and eq, they won't sound great afterwards.
If it sounds like crap before, re-record it!
 
I guess. I meet so many people who know everything in this biz.

I study every single day. Usually several hours each night reading watching material. And I am a full time working studio with more work than I can handle the last 17 years. Have to keep learning.

That really entails listening to solid advice being offered . Not excusing it all away
 
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