Upright bass?

bubbagump

bubbagump

New member
This weekend will be the first time I record an upright bass for a jazz combo. Any suggestions as to types of mics to use or placement? I thought about perhaps a mix of an omni and maybe a dynamic (SM7, MD421 or the like) closer up near the fret board to get pluck. What have others used with success?
 
People have all kinds of methods for upright bass. And all basses are not created equal, along with bassists, strings, etc..

I like to keep it simple: One mic, cardioid, or figure-of-eight, about two feet off the upper bout. Adjust to taste.

The 421 would probably be a good choice. I usually choose a ribbon mic.
 
I am an upright bass player of nearly 20 years, and I record myself all the time.

It all depends on whether you have isolation or not. If you are recording jazz, you probably don't. In general, the sweet spot will probably be around the soundpost, which is around the g-side bridge foot. Do not mic in front of the f-hole. Another good spot is right at the tip of the bridge pointing at the bass. Upper bout like Agcurry said is good if you have iso.

If there is no drummer in the room, you should be fine with a couple of gobos. If there is, you need to make a decision to fight the bleed or embrace it. For fighting it, I would use an RE20 or similar placed as close as possible without getting wierd resonances. An M88 is good too, but I really prefer mics without excessive proximity effect. Rolling off too much bass with EQ will hurt the overall sound. If the player sits, it's easier to get the mics closer. Gobo the hell out of the bass.

To embrace the bleed, I put an earthworks omni (or another light-weight condenser with good off-axis response) suspended between the bridge feet with rubber bands. I use an omni so I can get it right up to the bass with no proximity effect, maximizing the bass sound and minimizing the bleed. What does bleed should be usable. Make sure the players are arranged the same way they get panned.

If you have the free tracks, I would do it both ways. I'd even take a direct signal. The DI will likely not sound good, but you might get lucky depending on the pickup he has.

PM me if you want to hear a sample or two. Also, why don't you list all of the mics you have available for the job so we can recommend one?

Don't know what your mixing tools are, but in mixdown I usually high pass around 65hz, and apply Voxengo Soniformer to smooth out any resonances that jump out (depending on the room it was recorded or how the mics had to be positioned to minimize bleed). Good luck.
 
leddy said:
To embrace the bleed, I put an earthworks omni (or another light-weight condenser with good off-axis response) suspended between the bridge feet with rubber bands. I use an omni so I can get it right up to the bass with no proximity effect, maximizing the bass sound and minimizing the bleed.
Click to expand...

this is a kick ass way to record upright. makes it easy.

Mike
 
I just want to stress one more time how much I hate proximity effect when recording bass. It may seem counter-intuitive to use an omni when you are trying to keep bleed in check, but you can place it really close and still get a natural sound. (I call it "embracing the bleed" because you are trying to make what bleeds sound good. It would still be better if it wasn't there).

It's common knowledge to worry about mic placement and choice before reaching for EQ, but it's especially important with upright bass, IMO.
 
What I have available...

SM7, i5, SM94, SM57, D6, MSH1A, AT4050, ADK A51, NT1000, Berry ECM8000...

This will be everyone in a room, so bleed is going to be part of it for sure. I can gobo to a point, but not a lot as my gobo resources are pretty limited. I am also open to the idea of buying a mic for this if not too extravagantly priced. I think I might be leaning towards an MSH1A near the sound post as you mentioned or go omni on the AT4050. An MSH1A would work swell on the bridge feet as it is no bigger than a thumb and with a gobo, I might get the bleed under control enough. Of course I will have to experiement once the guys are in the room, but your comments at least give me a direction to run in.

As for the high pass, I can see the use as the kick can often trip over the fundamentals depending on where it is at in the spectrum.
 
Last edited:
mshilarious said:
Why 65Hz? You are losing some fundamentals there :confused:
Click to expand...

Not much. The HP does not cut it off, it rolls it off (sharply though it may be). There is still enough energy down there for my taste. Also depends on what sound you are looking for.

I don't like recordings where sub-bass exists louder than it would in real life. Furthermore, those fundamentals would not be coming into the mic from the bass. There's not enough room. They would have to be reflections, no? As such, they would not likely be flat in the first place. I'm just using my ear, and a HP anywhere between 40hz and 70hz sounds good to me depending on the tracking situation.
 
Note: On Recording a Double Bass

Not that many engineers get the opportunity to record an upright bass. Too bad, it's challenging. The objective is to get the most you can from the bottom end, while still maintaining the detail that comes from the fretboard.

The upright presents a strong case for giving distance between the mic and the instrument so the low end waves have room to develop. By using a tube mic because they usually have a pretty friendly bottom end on it combined with just a little bit of edge around 3K that does a nice job of accentuating the buzz and bend that come from the fretboard and fingers plucking strings.

Simply place the mic about two feet away from the front of the instrument, aiming for the area around where the fingers pluck the strings. A tube limiter is a wonderful thing on an upright. If you have one, use it. If you don't, not to worry. Any reasonably good limiter will do the job. For a jazz combo sound, you'll want the bass to sound very natural, so go easy on the compression ratio (start at 3:1), and keep the threshold fairly loose.

If you find that the dynamics and the octave spread of a particular tune make for notes that aren't annunciated very well, or disappear altogether, then go for a little more compression. If you need to hear a little more "wood" from the bass, kick it up a couple notches at 700Hz, but be careful, this frequency can be lethal in large doses. 100Hz will fatten up the bottom, and 2.5Khz will give definition, but can also be dangerous in large doses.

just my $.02 cents
 
Last edited:
Wow, Leddy, great info!

I thought the MSH1 was omni. No? If not, several people have used the ECMs with good results. I think common practice with them is to put one through one of the holes in the bridge, suspended by somthing soft and cushy like foam. If the MSH was an omni, I would think that would be even better, considering the size.

I have a pair of the ECMs, but, I'm ashamed to say, I haven't gotten around to trying to record my upright yet. :o

When you decide, post back on how you did it and how it turned out.
 
leddy said:
Not much. The HP does not cut it off, it rolls it off (sharply though it may be). There is still enough energy down there for my taste. Also depends on what sound you are looking for.

I don't like recordings where sub-bass exists louder than it would in real life. Furthermore, those fundamentals would not be coming into the mic from the bass. There's not enough room. They would have to be reflections, no? As such, they would not likely be flat in the first place. I'm just using my ear, and a HP anywhere between 40hz and 70hz sounds good to me depending on the tracking situation.
Click to expand...

I also find it interesting that bass players, more often than not, are the ones who don't like that artificial sub-bass that's so common now. To me, that should be reserved for movie effects, where it's already overused, IMO.
 
bubbagump said:
The MSH1A is an omni.... thus my thought it would work well suspended.
Click to expand...

That's what I would try first. I'd also stick a dynamic somewhere and compare the two. Take the DI too, it can help bring out some attack if the bleed gets the bass sound too mushy.
 
Hi,
I use my cheapo ribbon about 2 feet away or a LC. Tube condensers can sound great. I've even seen folks use a 57 wrapped in foam, stuffed in the bridge aiming up. sounds better than you might think.
No bleed either. Love the small omni in rubber band idea!

I like a more natural sound in general, but sometimes mix in just a little Piezo for articulation. I like to buffer and eq the piezo with my sans21 acoustic di. One of my basses has a schaller mag pickup. Sometimes i'll blend this with the piezo.


As noted above, big difference in sound due to instrument/strings/player/room.
Also, if you roll off below 65 hrtz, you are losing the fundamental of most of the lowest octave.

Also, what kind of pres do you have?
 
I miced an upright live

Hi,

A little off topic. It was live music outside.

It was a bluegrass band. I put the AKG 690 hypercardiod on the banjo about 18 inches out. That worked great. Banjos are loud.

The AT Midnight Blue MB4000C went on the mandolin. It has a battery power option so phantom power is not required. A good cheap condenser for stage use.

I put an AKG 770 on a gooseneck stand and let the bass player position it. She wanted to hit the f hole but the gooseneck wouldn't stay that low so she hit the wood above the f hole. About six inches away from the bass. Which worked great.

The standup bass pumped out all over the park. That's a cheap mic working good on upright in a live setting.

I recorded upright on a Jazz CD. The bass player has really good ears and he heard a buzzing. This was a true home studio situation. The drawer pulls on the buffet in the next room were buzzing in sympathy with the bass.

So at the start of every session we had to take pillows and squeeze them up into the drawer pulls so they wouldn't buzz.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
leddy said:
Furthermore, those fundamentals would not be coming into the mic from the bass. There's not enough room. They would have to be reflections, no?
Click to expand...

No, that isn't the way sound waves propagate. Just because the wavelength might be 25 ft or more doesn't mean that you have to be 25 feet away to hear it. Otherwise you'd never hear anything below 10kHz on headphones.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top