under ten g's

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Jerry Kahn

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I am a programmer by trade, so using a computer is easy for me. Up until a couple of years ago I had been having quite a bit of fun sequencing with Performer/Mac and a roland synth. Most of what I did I might describe as movie-music-ish, a little jazz and classical and avant-garde. I wanted to get into digital audio: vocals and rock guitar, so I added pro tools (16 bit, on my mac 6500), some effects boxes and plug ins. I made some interesting inroads but never quite got the creative juices flowing as well as I was able to with simply sequencing synths. I then put it all on hold, and sold most of my gear (3 years ago), and focused more intently upon my singing, which consumed me for a while. It was right about that time that I had started checking out the high end, 24 bit pro tools professional systems in the stores and was blown away by the sound and real time effects.

Now I want to go back to creating new music, and am interested building up my equipment collection again, 5-10K range. Emphasis is on editing, effects, monkeying around and sound quality but not necessarily on the ideal mix. Sequencing is still my strongest suit, but I am also into wacked out guitar and vocal work.

I got the following recommendation from an intelligent sounding rep at Manny's NYC. He said, "first invest in a computer (G4) - that should be the number one priority and then he said something about dual processors. Then you must get an external hard drive." (running out of space used to be my biggest complaint with digital audio so that made sense to me)."Then get a preamp/compressor, a good mic and the latest release of one of the big 4 software packages-Logic, Performer, Pro Tools, Cubase- Then get some plug ins for effects, and that should get you going" When I asked if I should get the professional Pro Tools suite, he said that you can easily drop 10K and still not even have the basics. Meanwhile the standard software was starting to sound just about as good." I then asked if I should get one of the Digital Workstations I've been reading about -ie Roland, Yamaha or Akai. He said that the computer should cover most of that. When I mentioned that the digital effects I used to get in my old pro tools plug ins were less than adequate, he said that it's a new world now and the effects are now cool and real-time.

Any feedback?
 
Digidesign 001 is only $900, and from what I've heard from people who know what they're talking about (I don't really, I'm just getting started myself), it's the coolest thing ever. Pro-Tools LE software comes with it, and this allows you to do just about everything you can do in the pro Pro-Tools. (Please, if anyone knows better, correct me if I'm wrong.)
I'm going to buy one myself very soon, as I plan to do some recording and MIDI work from home. (I am a DJ and a singer/MC, looking to make hip-hop and dance tracks as well as movie soundtrack/radio sound collage-type stuff).
I am going to get a Mac G4-- somebody told me that the dual processor actually doesn't help with Pro-Tools, that it's better to just get more RAM and stick with a single processor. I have no idea though, and would love it if some techie would just set me straight once and for all.
Anyone have any ideas that could help me or Jerry?
(Sorry to steal your thread, Jerry, but I think we're in the same boat, kinda.)
 
if I were you Id spend half on a computer and software and a mixer and stuff.., and half of killer old analog gear. Id definately get a roland space-echo, if you like wacked out shite, and some other cool stuff to your tastes. IMHO, its way cooler sounding to RECORD a killer sound, and not edit it at all, then to record a mediocre sound, and try and Make it cool by editing.

xoxo
 
digi001 might be good, but if you buy components you will be way better off- for a little more investment.

everybody is talking about PAris now. I say Yada yada yada and woo woo. All hype. I don't believe that paris is capable of doing anything that Logic or Digital Performer cannot do. But then again those are serious pieces of software.

So , if you get a good card. Motu2408 mkii or Delta 1010 or echo layla or others (lynx, wavelab etc) and couple that with Logic, and add a sweet pre. Joemeek, mindprint, dbx, then you are ready to go.
 
Much obliged, all-- I didn't mention that the Manny's rep had dittoed Camn's strategy of half computer/half analog effects, as well as CyanJaguar's recommendation of a good pre amp as well. I will be looking into digi001, Motu2408 mkii, Delta 1010, and echo layla. Thank you Camn for the intriguing Roland "space echo" recommendation. I am wary of digital reverb in general: I used to have an Alesis Quadraverb which to me sounded like hiss, and my old pro tools plug-ins sounded even worse. However ome of my guitar effects boxes were nice, especially the dan electro; I had a real old fender reverb unit with springs which was quite cool/ bizaare sounding.

No one mentioned the need for a Digital Workstation-- I guess that the G4 + software will cover all that?
 
Cyan.....read this

Cyan,

I am a very computer literate person and when i first started recording with a PC, I bought a PIII, 128MB Ram, 20 Gb7200 RPM HD, Echo's Layla, Logic Audio 4.o Gold, and and External mixer.

I recorded on that for a year and it worked about 70% of the time. I found the limitations to be:

1)Track Number. I could get about 20 Trax but as soon as I added Waves Comps and stuff, I was dead in the water. I could only get like 8 tracks with plug ins...even Logic's plug ins. And you can tell me all you want about how I didnt have this or that configured right....I did - of that I am 150% positive.

2)Speed. Logic is fast but only as fast as your computer. I had no qualms working in it because it was the only thing I had ever used. I got used to the latency, sadly. That has all changed now that I got PARIS.

3)Reliability. Logic and the Layla were not very reliable. When Emagic came out with that cursed 4.5 upgrade and forced ASIO on the Echo cards...that was the final straw! I couldn't take it anymore. It kept crashing and acting really shitty with click and pops and major peaks....it would drop out and stuff....not professional.


Enter PARIS



I use the same computer, sold my mixer, sold logic, sold layla and bought PARIS Bundle III. Pricey at 3 grand but read on....

1)I can get over 32 tracks of 24-bit audio with real time DSP and NO LATENCY AT ALL, NONE, NADA, ZIP! If i want to solo trax, hit the button BOOM all other audio is gone INSTANTLY even with 20 + tracks running.

2)Paris has the C-16. If you dont know what this is, read about it. No more mixing with a damn mouse....its all at your fingertips in a digital mixing board.

3)Hardware effects. PARIS doesnt rely on your computer for anything but graphics, (I got a matrox 6400 dual for my 2 21" monitors), and native plug-ins (direct x, VST, etc...) Since my CPU is freed I can add a ren comp to EVERY TRACK...all of them and no crashing or "CPU too slow" we wont ever get stareted on the Ren Eq's....i could add them all day.

3)Reliability. This is the only area that I have a gripe w/ PARIS. The first EDS-1000 card I got had problems when it got too hot. The new one that they 2nd day aired me appears to be working fine now. I am happy. Paris doesnt crash (unless it gets too hot).

You can say what you want about getting the same performance out of a CPU based and a hardware DSP based DAW but there is simply no comparisson. My FACTUAL opinion comes from having used both. I can not compare PARIS to Protools because I have not used them side by side. However, many Protools users say Paris is warmer.

If you can swing it....and with 5 grand i assure you that you can...get paris. You'll thank me later...i promise.

Check out my studio at http://www.digitaledgestudio.com
If you made it this far in the article Check this out as well.

http://www.emu.com/tankersley.html
http://www.emuparis.com

regards,

gen
 
camn-
On the Roland Space Echo, does the model matter that much? I put a bid on an RE-150, but there were also Re201's and SRE-555 available, and duh, I didn't notice the numbers till after I bid.
 
it all about the sound

hi gener1c,

I had been to your web page previously, and I like it. I even left a note in your guest book.

But my point about software is, glitches aside, the capable ones can do the same thing. I would like to know, do your songs sound better with Paris. Are the eqs better, the reverbs, etc?

I agree with you that Paris might be faster than Logic or Dp, based on the fact that it has DSP, but did you get any less professional results when you were using logic?

If you did not get any less professional results using logic, then we can say that Paris is better than logic only in the sense that it is less glitchy and it is also faster. At $2700 difference between paris and Logic, that will be a huge price to pay for speed.

I noticed that you have worked with Cody Young, and both of you had basically the same setup, and from what I heard of Cody's music in his days with Logic, it was pretty darn good.

He never complained about his logic or layla either, he actually recommended it. I fear that as you get used to Paris, you might find things that irritate and frustrate the heck out of you.

Not that I won't get paris if I had the extra dough. I mean, four number one songs is pretty amazing.
 
one other thing gener1c,

many pro tools users prefer to use logic as their front end bcos they prefer the sound of it to their native protools.

I've gotten so used to mixing with a mouse that it would seem strange if I had to mix with a board.
 
Thanks again

gener1c -- thank you for the discussion on Paris. I've heard really good things about it, and it seems like they are taking a nice bite out of the Pro Tools market. But I really wish I didn't have to upgrade my Mac (6500). I just don't feel like shelling out 3G's for another computer. I wonder-- would Paris work on my older Mac, since it would only be used for the graphical interface?

Ciao,
Jerry
 
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