unballanced or ballanced patch cables

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effectsnut

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what the difference between unballanced or ballanced cables?
and what applications..? thanks
 
Outlaws said:
One is grounded.
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sorry... no....

The terms unbalanced/balanced have nothing to do with the cable directly -- they are terms for interconnection schemes between equipment.

Cable are either single conductor (examples: guitar cable, 1/4" TS cable), or 2-conductor (examples: mic cable, 1/4" TRS cable)....

Unbalanced interconnection requires only single conductor cable, while balanced connections require 2-conductor cable.

And whether to run balanced or unbalanced interconnects depends on the gear in question, and not the cable itself. (ie, there's no advantage using balanced runs to connect gear that doesn't have balanced connections)
 
Balanced cables carry a signal over 2 wires(apart from the ground). However the signal is split and one end is shifted by 90 deg in phase. Doing so lets the signal travel longer distances and also reduce noise.

Unbalanced carries the signal on one wire(plus ground).

So, if, for example you are recording and your equipmet supports it then use balanced cables.
 
amt7565 said:
Balanced cables carry a signal over 2 wires(apart from the ground). However the signal is split and one end is shifted by 90 deg in phase. Doing so lets the signal travel longer distances and also reduce noise.
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Almost, but not quite. :D In a balanced connection, one leg has its polarity reversed (180 electrical degrees out of phase); at the recieving end the inverted signal will be "re-inverted" and combined with the positive signal, thus cancelling any noise that was induced in the cable run.

Scott
 
DigitMus said:
...at the recieving end the inverted signal will be "re-inverted" and combined with the positive signal, thus cancelling any noise that was induced in the cable run.
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Almost... but not quite... the receiving end does not re-invert and combine the two signals, but creates a signal that is the difference between the two. Since the two signals see virtually the same impedance, any noise is equally induced on the two lines and thus is subtracted out, leaving only the audio signal.
 
Yes, basically one signal will be phase shifted. For example if one is shifted by -45, then it is added(but actually subtracted since its -). So +45 and -45 will cancel out, eliminating any noise.
 
amt7565 said:
Yes, basically one signal will be phase shifted. For example if one is shifted by -45, then it is added(but actually subtracted since its -). So +45 and -45 will cancel out, eliminating any noise.
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Huh?

As mentioned above, balanced signals consist of 2 hot signals plus ground with polarity inverted (180 degree shift) on one of the hot signals.

2 signals summed together but with one of them shifted 45 degrees will produce a comb filtering effect on the resultant waveform, not a cancellation.
 
Last edited:
remember to use the right polarity of your cable or the sound won't pass through and you'll get a thi out-of-phase sound !



Errrr... not ? :D :cool: :p

Herwig
 
DeadPoet said:
remember to use the right polarity of your cable or the sound won't pass through and you'll get a thi out-of-phase sound !

Errrr... not ?
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Not necessarily... if you record a kick drum, and you flip the polarity, do you hear a difference? Some people do claim to - last time I tried I didn't hear a diff.

The only real change in that case is that your speaker's woofer will move inwards on the "attack" rather than outward.
 
well now that you are sufficiently confused

I prefer to use balanced cables where ever possible. Some equipment is picky, some situations have a lot of electrical noise that can interfere with your signal chain. A balanced system will be bothered less than an unbalanced system.

You also don't want to screw up when patching in equipment.

I have traced many sound problems to someone inserting a 1/4" mono jack(Tip/sleeve) into a mixer with tip/ring/sleeve inputs. The sleeve shorts the neutral to ground (sleeve, instead of ring/sleave). When ever I need to hook an unbalanced cable (i.e. RCA jacked audio player) into a balanced input, I make sure to use the proper adapter--hot to hot, neutral to neutral. since there is no ground on that hookup, it remains unconnected.

Keeping all the signal chain pure is the best way to keep errant noise from getting into the system.
 
amt7565 said:
Yes, basically one signal will be phase shifted. For example if one is shifted by -45, then it is added(but actually subtracted since its -). So +45 and -45 will cancel out, eliminating any noise.
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Balanced signals are not considered phase shifted. They are normally referred to as reversed polarity. But, they are 180 degrees out of phase. Phase shifting is generally reserved for time shifting of signals. This almost amounts to a distinction without a difference, but the difference in terminology does better describe the situation.
 
I feel smarter now that I have read this thread. :)

This is probably a dumb question to ask in here with all you smart folks but.. With the small amount of electricity that an electric guitar produces, would it make sense to use a TRS ILO the std unbalanced from the guitar to the floor? Or from my effects to the amp? so on and so forth?

Space
 
VSpaceBoy said:
This is probably a dumb question to ask in here with all you smart folks but.. With the small amount of electricity that an electric guitar produces, would it make sense to use a TRS ILO the std unbalanced from the guitar to the floor? Or from my effects to the amp? so on and so forth?
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Nope.

For a signal to be balanced you need a balancing transformer... you would need a device that takes the signal and ground of your guitar and transform that into a balanced signal (+signal, -signal and ground) .. also balanced signals have a completely different impedance than other 'normal' balanced signals (mic or line) which will make your guitar sound different through your FX and/or amp.


Herwig
 
amt7565 said:
Balanced cables carry a signal over 2 wires(apart from the ground). However the signal is split and one end is shifted by 90 deg in phase.
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Actually the signal is phase inverted which is 180 deg out of phase. Unbalanced cables have 2 conductors (sig, ground) and Balanced cables have 3 conductors (sig+, sig-,ground).
 
Steve Walker said:
Unbalanced cables have 2 conductors (sig, ground)
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No... that's considered a single-conductor....


Steve Walker said:
Balanced cables have 3 conductors (sig+, sig-,ground).
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No.... that's considered 2-conductor.


Incidently, it's not "phase-inverted", it's polarity-inverted.... but hey - at least you got the 180 degrees right! (Even though that's already been pointed out several times...!)

;)
 
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