Tube Preamp

J

JHudson

New member
I am looking into Tube Preamps, and I only need single channel. I sometimes record direct guitar via the recording out on a Roland Cube (going into Tascam US1800), and though the tone is very good for what I need, I want to add a touch of natural tube warmth/compression. I am sure I will use this at some point to run a vocal mic through as well, but mainly will be guitar. Dont want to break the bank, but dont want to shoot myself in the foot buying something too cheap. Open for ideas, Thanks
 
Justsomeguy said:
realistically what kind of budget?
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If need be wouldnt mind going $200-$300, if that will get me one. Just needing one channel (and that is if that is realisitc, I have seed the small ART ones for cheap, just not sure about them because they are so inexpensive..)
 
tbf, the two that spring to mind are the ART mp and the presonus tubepre. I have had 3 of the ART MP's and have one left (both have been "borrowed" by friends and they use them a lot.... i may not get them back) and found them to be ok. not a proper tube sound but driven a bit they can warm up a guitar or vocal track nicely. in terms of preamp quality they're about on par with most budget interface pre's but they can add something to a sound that interface pres don't. i've not personally tried the presonus one but i've heard good things about it.

i'm still a big fan of the TLA stuff and the TL audio 5050 is quite nice imo. again, not as coloured as some tube pre's but has a definite warmth to it. it's also got a compressor built in. however, this would be the upper range of your budget and is rack mounted, but is a truer "valve" sound then the others. i've got the TLA quad pre in my rack at home and it gets a fair bit of use
 
If need be wouldnt mind going $200-$300, if that will get me one.
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(A) You aren't going to get a decent tube preamp for that budget (let's say that you aren't even going to get a TUBE preamp at that budget - A box that contains tubes, perhaps).

(B) "Tube" sound generally doesn't come from tubes. It comes from the transformers in those units.

I'm not saying there aren't good tube units out there - Manley, Tube-Tec, Avalon, etc. But 95% of the time, "Really cheap" and "tubes" in the same sentence leads to "crappy sound" in the next.

You want warm and reasonably cheap? GAP's Pre73. Five-Fish's (API-like) unit.

Don't wind up with some cheesy starved-plate POS that would sound exactly the same if you replaced the "toob" with well-placed paper clips...
 
The only thing in that price range that you may like is a Studio Projects VTB-1. Review here, I have 2 of them in the rack kit and while I don't use them on everything I do like them.

Which country are you in? There are some good street prices out there.

Alan
 
JHudson said:
And all of the above is the information that I want and need . The home recording thing is new to me, so I appreciate the help - also, I am in the US (someone else had asked)
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I asked to see what price you would be paying, seems like $149 in the US. Link and Link. And yes they are no neve, avalon but they do sound very good for the price and would be a lot better than the ART.

Alan.
 
I just scored a used Golden Age Projects Pre73 mk I for $235.00 (shipped).
Not a tube preamp, but a fairly-priced quality preamp that's discussed on different forums and in different circles in a rather favorable manner. Certainly worth looking in to, IMHO.
 
yeah, i'll second, third, or fourth the GAP. I've used the presonus TUBE thing and it's ok. I liked it when I first started, but the GAP is so much better. Not TUBE, but I don't think you'll get any complaints that people listening to your recordings can't hear the tubes.
 
In that price range you're not going to get a tube preamp, you're going to get a solid state preamp with a tube effect loop. If "tube warmth" or rather exaggerated distortion and harmonics are what you are after, then a starved plate gimmick isn't necessarily a bad thing, but go into to it knowing what you are and are not getting. The original popular electronics article for the PAiA tube head has a good side bar on starved plate designs.

That said, if you are handy with a soldering iron, understand a schematic, know how to shop, and don't need anything pretty sitting in the rack, understand a schematic, and can handle messing around with 300 volts, google "New York Dave one bottle" you can build one of those on your own for about your budget in parts, again, if you know how to shop. The input transformer may set you back some, depending on what you buy, and you'll need to drive a relatively high impedance line input.
 
Blue Jinn said:
In that price range you're not going to get a tube preamp, you're going to get a solid state preamp with a tube effect loop. If "tube warmth" or rather exaggerated distortion and harmonics are what you are after, then a starved plate gimmick isn't necessarily a bad thing, but go into to it knowing what you are and are not getting. The original popular electronics article for the PAiA tube head has a good side bar on starved plate designs.

That said, if you are handy with a soldering iron, understand a schematic, know how to shop, and don't need anything pretty sitting in the rack, understand a schematic, and can handle messing around with 300 volts, google "New York Dave one bottle" you can build one of those on your own for about your budget in parts, again, if you know how to shop. The input transformer may set you back some, depending on what you buy, and you'll need to drive a relatively high impedance line input.
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I will look into that also, and thanks! I am not looking for any type of distortion - what I am after is this: Most of what I am recording is Chet Atkins type music. There is a good bit of difference in the "pat" of the thumb going through solid state vs. tubes. (if that makes any sense at all, whoever is familiar with Chet's style will understand this a bit more). Just a smoothness that is very pleasing. I accomplish this best currently now by running direct out of my Music Man RD 50, (which Chet did at times as well) -but what I am looking for is a good alternative to this so that if I want to record at 2 in the morning, I can do it direct with no amp/speaker in use. Thought about just dummy loading the RD 50, but I like the idea of having something stand alone that can be used for vocals if need be also.
 
Understand that when I say "distortion" I don't mean van Halen square wave's. I mean the point of starved plate is to exaggerate the non-linear aspect of the tube, to get a "tubey" effect.

I don't know if you're going to get the same kind of sound using a tube preamp direct in as opposed to micing a nice amp. However, I do have a home built preamp that I use for that purpose, and I like the tone, if I use the 12AX7 it calls for it's pretty much fuzz all teh way. I've stuck 12AU7 and 12AV7's in there with different gain factors and different tones. Note, this is wholesale tube swapping w/o changing plate or cathode resistors. It works, but is probably not ideal from a tube life standpoint. The amount of use vs tube life isn't really a factor for me (hobby type)

So I think I get what you're talking about. If you're into building your own gear, you could try something like the NY Dave, or the "Real McTube" (*pcb available from Tonepad) you could experiment with different component values, plate voltages and tubes to come up with a tone you like. What is your skill level w/ DIY? The nice thing w/ tube preamps is you don't have to spend a fortune on a high current transformer for the power supply. A US$15 250v transformer from Allied will give you the B+ you need for one or two 12A*7 series tubes, and the parts count for capacitors/resistors etc is pretty low. A nice case will cost you more. I still struggle with understanding a plate curve, there are a lot of online resources if you want to roll your own. Also, the NY dave has lots of info, and a good diagram for wiring on a tag strip. I have a PCB from a GroupDIY user. (Project numebr 8 on the list....)

There are also other alternatives. You could use the Aikido (kits available) you could also roll your own. One or two triode gain stages aren't that complex of a circuit. Again it depends on your skill/time/comfort level. You are dealing with high voltage circuits.

An old friend of mine for a time had a nice Gretsch "Chet Atkins special" Damn nice sounding guitar.
 
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JHudson said:
I want to add a touch of natural tube warmth/compression.
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Micing an amp might be better choice and way to go to get that sound you're looking for but your request is a good request in the sense you're looking to direct record and get the best bang for the buck out of a preamp. Don't discount the Art pres simply because some people say they don't like them. Buy one and test it out. If you don't like it...you haven't lost a lot of money. You can resell it or give it to a friend.

I hate it I read the word 'warmth'. For as long as I have been here or at other recording forums I've yet to read any of the experts explain what 'warmth' is.

IMO 'warmth' is an over used word to describe what you hear when you listen to a vinyl record album on a turntable. There's no way to achieve that sound recording digitally because of the sampling. A purist approach would be anolog tape recording.
 
JHudson said:
I will look into that also, and thanks! I am not looking for any type of distortion - what I am after is this: Most of what I am recording is Chet Atkins type music. There is a good bit of difference in the "pat" of the thumb going through solid state vs. tubes. (if that makes any sense at all, whoever is familiar with Chet's style will understand this a bit more). Just a smoothness that is very pleasing. I accomplish this best currently now by running direct out of my Music Man RD 50, (which Chet did at times as well) -but what I am looking for is a good alternative to this so that if I want to record at 2 in the morning, I can do it direct with no amp/speaker in use. Thought about just dummy loading the RD 50, but I like the idea of having something stand alone that can be used for vocals if need be also.
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A good preamp should help accomplish this, regardless of tube or solid state. I used to play some of fingerstyle in that vein of music, so I understand entirely. Seems like you'll end up wanting to lessen the attack of your thumbpick for that "pat".

My ISA One does great with this kind of thing, but so did my DMP3. A good preamp will handle both this and vocal duties.
 
I bought a Sebatron and I am very happy. I've seen single channel VMP's go used for a few hundred.

I doubt you'll find much better value in well-designed tube gear.
 
Thanks to everyone for the great replies and information. Not sure which direction I will go yet, but I will keep you posted.
 
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