T
taintedeity
New member
Im interested in purchasing a tube amp sometime soon. I was just wondering, how often do tubes usually last and how much does it cost to replace them?
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-=¤willhaven¤=-
New member
Tubes can last a long time when you heat them up on standby for a few minutes before playing, NEVER move the amp while it is hot, and turn the amp on standby before turning it off. At least, thats what I've always been told.
The tubes in my Mesa have lasted me since late 2000. I didn't NEED to replace them, but I was moving cross country away from the free tech I had (AKA Dad) and I didn't want to get stuck with someone else working on my amp.
Cost all depends on the tube type and brand. The tubes I put in my amp in 2000 were $25 apeice.
The tubes I put in now are much cheaper but are still quite nice.
The tubes in my Mesa have lasted me since late 2000. I didn't NEED to replace them, but I was moving cross country away from the free tech I had (AKA Dad) and I didn't want to get stuck with someone else working on my amp.
Cost all depends on the tube type and brand. The tubes I put in my amp in 2000 were $25 apeice.
The tubes I put in now are much cheaper but are still quite nice.
famous beagle
Well-known member
Turning on a tube amp is always agreed upon. You turn on the power first, wait a few minutes, then turn on the standby switch.
But I've heard two schools of thought when it comes to turning off a tube amp. Some people say to simply reverse the on procedure (turn off the standby, wait, then turn off the power). But lately I've been told by several people that it's best to simply turn off the power first (while the standby is still on), wait a bit, then turn off the standby.
I honestly don't know which is best. Maybe someone can clear it up.
But I've heard two schools of thought when it comes to turning off a tube amp. Some people say to simply reverse the on procedure (turn off the standby, wait, then turn off the power). But lately I've been told by several people that it's best to simply turn off the power first (while the standby is still on), wait a bit, then turn off the standby.
I honestly don't know which is best. Maybe someone can clear it up.
ibanezrocks
New member
I haven't heard any argument over starting it up like famous beagle said, but for turning it off I kind of have my own reasoning as this usually isnt discussed. Since when I turn the amp off without putting it on standby first I get a loud pop sound out of the speaker as the power is removed from it, I found that if I turn the amp on standby for just 5 seconds or so then turn the power off I dont get that noise.
B
boingoman
New member
Start-up: wait a little while with the amp on standby.
Turn-off: doesn't matter, as far as damage. Like IR says, using the standby switch at turnoff can help avoid big thumps and pops, though.
Tubes do their thing best when hot. Tube guts take a minute or so to heat up enough to work properly, and sending signal through a cold tube can definitely shorten it's life. Signal through a cold tube stresses the coating on the cathode, which is the part of the tube that gives off electrons when hot, allowing the tube to work. Cathode coating damage is called "cathode stripping".
The standby switch lets the tube warm up before any audio can pass through it. It takes awhile for the amp to fully warm up, but the tubes will be ready to go pretty quickly.
This is one interesting difference between solid state and tube rectifiers. A solid state rectifier provides full voltage to the tubes right away, before they are warmed up. The standby switch is very important in an amp with a solid-state rectifer.
A tube rectifer needs to warm up just like the other tubes to work properly, so basically the whole amp powers up gently, with no hard power-on surge. It's a bit easier on the tubes all around.
I'm not saying tube rectifiers are better, just pointing something out.
In either case, don't turn the thing on, crank up the volume, and strum your guitar until noise comes out.
Turn-off: doesn't matter, as far as damage. Like IR says, using the standby switch at turnoff can help avoid big thumps and pops, though.
Tubes do their thing best when hot. Tube guts take a minute or so to heat up enough to work properly, and sending signal through a cold tube can definitely shorten it's life. Signal through a cold tube stresses the coating on the cathode, which is the part of the tube that gives off electrons when hot, allowing the tube to work. Cathode coating damage is called "cathode stripping".
The standby switch lets the tube warm up before any audio can pass through it. It takes awhile for the amp to fully warm up, but the tubes will be ready to go pretty quickly.
This is one interesting difference between solid state and tube rectifiers. A solid state rectifier provides full voltage to the tubes right away, before they are warmed up. The standby switch is very important in an amp with a solid-state rectifer.
A tube rectifer needs to warm up just like the other tubes to work properly, so basically the whole amp powers up gently, with no hard power-on surge. It's a bit easier on the tubes all around.
I'm not saying tube rectifiers are better, just pointing something out.
In either case, don't turn the thing on, crank up the volume, and strum your guitar until noise comes out.
rory
New member
As far as how long it takes before you have to replace them, it depends on how often you play,and how loud. I generally say to replace your tubes once a year, if you play a couple times a week at a modest volume. Your tone will drastically deteriorate with "worn" tubes, though you might not even realize it. When you replace them it should be night and day. Unless you have a self-biasing amp, I recommend having a tech do it, and that will run you anywhere from $75-100 depending on how many tubes, their hourly rate, and if they find anything else wrong with it.
S
SteveK
New member
rory said:
Great advice all!
If your amp starts sounding, and feeling "different" it's time to replace the power tubes. Preamp tubes are generally only replaced when they start to become noisy and microphonic.
Toki987
Rock Steady
The tubes on the Bassman 135 still say Fender on them. It`s been, let'see... 1975 give or take a few...
A matched set of JJ's are going in as soon as one of them dies. I'll just keep waiting for a while to see how long they do last. Between 75 and $100 is correct for mine also, depending where you shop. It uses a quad of 6L6's, one 12AT7 and two 12AX7's.
A matched set of JJ's are going in as soon as one of them dies. I'll just keep waiting for a while to see how long they do last. Between 75 and $100 is correct for mine also, depending where you shop. It uses a quad of 6L6's, one 12AT7 and two 12AX7's.
wesley tanner
New member
a number one: THEY'RE WORTH EVERY PENNY!
heat can hurt these puppies, i've got fans modded into the chassis of a couple of my amps... Their tone will start to suck as they get old... good ol' chunky distortion comes from power tube distortion, which stresses the power tubes a lot. my fav. comes from el84's, then 34s, then 6L6's
rebiasing is not needed if you replace with the same tubes it's been biased with (mesa boogie seems to be best at this, imo)
heat can hurt these puppies, i've got fans modded into the chassis of a couple of my amps... Their tone will start to suck as they get old... good ol' chunky distortion comes from power tube distortion, which stresses the power tubes a lot. my fav. comes from el84's, then 34s, then 6L6's
rebiasing is not needed if you replace with the same tubes it's been biased with (mesa boogie seems to be best at this, imo)
WERNER 1
Member
Pre's: These tubes have the greatest effect on the "tone" of your amp, and usually last much longer than Power tubes - These tubes generally run from about 10 -20 bucks each depending on what you want.
Power: These tubes provide the "Power" of your amp, and also have an effect on the over all sound, though not quite as much as the pre's do. These tubes also degrade in performace over time and will need to be changed to keep your amp sounding "fresh"
The Bias of the amp should be checked after each retubing of the power tubes. For the best performance they should be changed in pairs or quartets depending on the set up of your amp. It seems that most amp manufacturers have the bias set at a modest (colder) setting, this does well for the longevity of the tubes, but you are not getting the best tone by doing this.
For the money that has been quoted above to have an amp biased, you can purchase the tools you need to do this your self, and set it "properly" or to your taste.
Rick
Power: These tubes provide the "Power" of your amp, and also have an effect on the over all sound, though not quite as much as the pre's do. These tubes also degrade in performace over time and will need to be changed to keep your amp sounding "fresh"
The Bias of the amp should be checked after each retubing of the power tubes. For the best performance they should be changed in pairs or quartets depending on the set up of your amp. It seems that most amp manufacturers have the bias set at a modest (colder) setting, this does well for the longevity of the tubes, but you are not getting the best tone by doing this.
For the money that has been quoted above to have an amp biased, you can purchase the tools you need to do this your self, and set it "properly" or to your taste.
Rick
metalhead28
Hates Raymond
Just a bit of information which may be obvious but nobody mentioned it - Off of standby, power is still going thru the tubes, so by turning the power off first - then the standby switch - you will drain all the juice out of the tubes. This is good for tube life, however you do get the turn off pop. This may be the equivalent of an old wives tale, but I've always heard it that way.
G
ggunn
Crystal Flavolian
metalhead28 said:
Once you have turned off the power switch, it doesn't appear to me that the standby switch does anything at all. (reference: Fender Showman AB763 schematic http://www.kbapps.com/audio/schematics/tubeamps/fender/showmanab763.html). The standby switch gates the tube plate voltages when the power is on.
T
Thatupstateguy
New member
After about 5 years of tube research, and 2 years of building experimental amps,... I can tell you that some of what is in this thread is true, and some is only half true,....
Tubes are the true tone monsters of the music world,.... Transistors are getting closer, but not there yet,....
For the purist,.... plugging directly into a properly running tube amp is heaven...
for some of us, it will never be a reality to own a truely inspiring amp,.... Leo Fender, and his contemperaries really knew what they were doing after a few experiments,.... and some of todays better amp builders are carrying on that tradition,..... but for most of the average Guitar players, the offerings of the 'local' music palace is what they play thru, at least till they find the groove they were hunting for, and the $$$$ to pay for better gear......
Tube amps are tough when it comes to picking just the right one for 'your' sound,.... lots of flavors to choose from...
here is my take on the whole thing,....
most of the true tube amps started as purely tubes,... meaning there was no standby switch, no solid state rectifiers,.... so with only one switch,.... you just turned it on, and waited for about 3-4 minutes and started playing,./....
then we have the advent of transistors, and solid state rectifiers,..... theses beasts will burn up your power tubes very quick if you do not use the standby switch,...... it is what it was invented for,...... tubes will work just fine for many years if you treat them right, ... they are meant to operate at pretty warm temperatures,.... but need to get there slowly,...... with solid state rectifiers,... the full amount of juice is put to the system right after you hit the power switch,......
WAY to much Way to fast, and will burn up your tubes in short order,....... only after 8-10 times of doing this, some tubes will lose up to 25% of their ability to do the job......and if you skimpped on the brand, and the cost, chances are you will lose even more than that.....
Good quality tubes equals great sound......
Standby switches are there for a reason,..... use them,....
Here is the sequence,.... check the standby position making sure it is 'ON',... then hit the power switch,..... if you have a full tube amp,.... this is not as important as with a quasi amp, or a 1/2 and 1/2 amp,.... part solid state, part tube,.....
after about 3 minutes of standby,..... go ahead and turn on the standby switch...... this warm up time will allow the plates in the tubes to get warm enough to start doing what they do,.......
and by the way,... unless you knoww what you are doing,... leave the messing about inside there to an expert,.... the 'operating ' voltages of some tubes can approach 500 volts,..... so hands off,......
as for changing tubes,..... generally your 12__7 tubes can be swapped, and experimented with till you get just the tone you want,..... less true with the hybred amps,.... or the half and halfs,..... but a real tube amp gets about 75% of its' tone frome the preamp stage.....so good tubes are VERY important there,.... as for power tubes,..... anything other than EL84s will almost always sound better, and last longer if they are properly biased,....
use auto spark plugs as an example,..... if they are not gapped they don't work very well,..... power tubes are kinda like that,..... they need to be balanced as well,... sort of like the auto analagy of balancing your tires,..... just work better, and runs longer without problems if you start out that way......
Some places will match the tubes for you,.... I mentioned EL84s, those amps generally are not as sensetive when it comes to bias, and matching,..... but you will end up with longer tube life if those rules are followed,.... and basically when a tube is nearing its end,..... you will lose volume,.... this is gradual in most cases,... but sometimes they just fail,.....
Military tubes are built more rugged, and usually last up to 10 times longer than the equal Civilian versions,... but in some cases you will sacrifice tone for longivity.....
in some instances this is desirable,... take the 5751 substitute for a 12AX7 as an example........ 5751 is a military version with only about 60-70% of the gain of the 12AX7,... but when it is used in the proper position in a preamp circuit,... the results are stupendous...... same for several other versions of many common tubes.....
I could keep going, but it would take another two or three pages to ramble on about the hows and whys.....
take your time and find just the right one,... and you will get years of enjoyment out of it....
Steve
Tubes are the true tone monsters of the music world,.... Transistors are getting closer, but not there yet,....
For the purist,.... plugging directly into a properly running tube amp is heaven...
for some of us, it will never be a reality to own a truely inspiring amp,.... Leo Fender, and his contemperaries really knew what they were doing after a few experiments,.... and some of todays better amp builders are carrying on that tradition,..... but for most of the average Guitar players, the offerings of the 'local' music palace is what they play thru, at least till they find the groove they were hunting for, and the $$$$ to pay for better gear......
Tube amps are tough when it comes to picking just the right one for 'your' sound,.... lots of flavors to choose from...
here is my take on the whole thing,....
most of the true tube amps started as purely tubes,... meaning there was no standby switch, no solid state rectifiers,.... so with only one switch,.... you just turned it on, and waited for about 3-4 minutes and started playing,./....
then we have the advent of transistors, and solid state rectifiers,..... theses beasts will burn up your power tubes very quick if you do not use the standby switch,...... it is what it was invented for,...... tubes will work just fine for many years if you treat them right, ... they are meant to operate at pretty warm temperatures,.... but need to get there slowly,...... with solid state rectifiers,... the full amount of juice is put to the system right after you hit the power switch,......
WAY to much Way to fast, and will burn up your tubes in short order,....... only after 8-10 times of doing this, some tubes will lose up to 25% of their ability to do the job......and if you skimpped on the brand, and the cost, chances are you will lose even more than that.....
Good quality tubes equals great sound......
Standby switches are there for a reason,..... use them,....
Here is the sequence,.... check the standby position making sure it is 'ON',... then hit the power switch,..... if you have a full tube amp,.... this is not as important as with a quasi amp, or a 1/2 and 1/2 amp,.... part solid state, part tube,.....
after about 3 minutes of standby,..... go ahead and turn on the standby switch...... this warm up time will allow the plates in the tubes to get warm enough to start doing what they do,.......
and by the way,... unless you knoww what you are doing,... leave the messing about inside there to an expert,.... the 'operating ' voltages of some tubes can approach 500 volts,..... so hands off,......
as for changing tubes,..... generally your 12__7 tubes can be swapped, and experimented with till you get just the tone you want,..... less true with the hybred amps,.... or the half and halfs,..... but a real tube amp gets about 75% of its' tone frome the preamp stage.....so good tubes are VERY important there,.... as for power tubes,..... anything other than EL84s will almost always sound better, and last longer if they are properly biased,....
use auto spark plugs as an example,..... if they are not gapped they don't work very well,..... power tubes are kinda like that,..... they need to be balanced as well,... sort of like the auto analagy of balancing your tires,..... just work better, and runs longer without problems if you start out that way......
Some places will match the tubes for you,.... I mentioned EL84s, those amps generally are not as sensetive when it comes to bias, and matching,..... but you will end up with longer tube life if those rules are followed,.... and basically when a tube is nearing its end,..... you will lose volume,.... this is gradual in most cases,... but sometimes they just fail,.....
Military tubes are built more rugged, and usually last up to 10 times longer than the equal Civilian versions,... but in some cases you will sacrifice tone for longivity.....
in some instances this is desirable,... take the 5751 substitute for a 12AX7 as an example........ 5751 is a military version with only about 60-70% of the gain of the 12AX7,... but when it is used in the proper position in a preamp circuit,... the results are stupendous...... same for several other versions of many common tubes.....
I could keep going, but it would take another two or three pages to ramble on about the hows and whys.....
take your time and find just the right one,... and you will get years of enjoyment out of it....
Steve
T
travelin travis
New member
Thatupstateguy said:
Ramble on...........I'd like to hear anything you wanna share about tube amps.
J
JCM800
New member
dude...i recently changed out my tubes and the amp is outrageous sounding now. So much bass and tone added to it. The tubes were pretty old though, and if you follow everyone's suggestions (like putting it on standby) you should be able to get them to last longer. you'll have to try different tubes to get a real grasp on what the sounds are. and get a pro to install/bias them.
T
TravisK
New member
i am finally going to replace the tubes in my jcm900 dual reverb and i can't wait. they are getting noisy.
anyways--i know that like people have said, you won't notice the degredation if you play it a lot. but once you change to new tubes (this will be my second time), it is amazing the difference. it's like a new amp every other year!
anyways--i know that like people have said, you won't notice the degredation if you play it a lot. but once you change to new tubes (this will be my second time), it is amazing the difference. it's like a new amp every other year!
patlang12
New member
My tube amp doesn't have a standby switch. 
How should I power it up and down?
How should I power it up and down?
B
boingoman
New member
patlang12 said:My tube amp doesn't have a standby switch.
Don't worry about it- as TUG said, many tube amps were made with no standby switch. Turn it on, wait a minute or so, and play. When you are done, turn it off.
metalhead28
Hates Raymond
ggun, I know what you mean, I mentioned flipping the standby switch afterward just so it will be on standby the next time you power up, You're right, it doesn't do anything at that point
patlang12
New member
All right, thats what I ussually do.boingoman said: