trombone recording... pop filter?

[tbone88]

I use two shure pg57's. They work great for guitar,drums, and voice. But when I try to record trombone, there seems to be what I'd call an "airy whooshy" sound before the notes. How far I stand from the mic doesn't make much difference. Will a pop filter fix that? Any help appreciated. Thanks.

 

[scrubs]

Unless you're miking really close, the amount of air coming out the bell of a trombone should not cause any problems for the mic. Try backing up a few feet to capture more of the ambience of the horn, though, and not just the up-close sound, which will naturally include some strange noises from both the horn and the player.

 

[Innovations]

From your description if you are micing really close you might be getting a bit of the player breathing in. It takes a lot of air to power deep brass and since the player does not want to back off too much some of their breathing in will draw air from inside the instrument.

 

[fraserhutch]

In my experience miking brass instruments, I have yet to run into a case where a pop filter was required. They just don't have the explosives that a voice does, which is what a pop filter protects against (that and spit, I suppose).

A lot of brass players are quite noisy when they take their breathe intake. I agree with Inno, that's what it sounds like. A good brass player knows how to take a low, warm breath that isn't as noisy. You can usually gate that noise out.

Now, Scrubs actually hits on the essence of brass recording - you want to record the instrument, not what comes out of the bell. The bell is for projection - the actual sound of the horn comes from the metal vibrating not the air coming out of the bell. The air is only necessary to keep the lips vibrating and get the metal vibrating. This is why you'll always get the richest sound by backing off a bit and recording more ambience.

 

[tbone88]

after more thought, I'd describe it more as "stuffy" sounding.

backing up helps, and i tried boosting the low and mid on the mixing board, witch helped it too. It's sounding better. thanks for the help.

 

[fraserhutch]

after more thought, I'd describe it more as "stuffy" sounding.

backing up helps, and i tried boosting the low and mid on the mixing board, witch helped it too. It's sounding better. thanks for the help.

Mic positioning is everything when recording horns. Don't be afraid to try a number of different positions, and micing off-axis, etc. Personally, I tend to like 2 -3 ' feet away in front, and slightly below the bell facing up towards it.

Because you are not really close-micing, your room will play a bigger part in the sound. It you have a poor room, it will reflect in the sound more recording this way.

It's also possible that the sure just isn't the greatest for bone. I don't know, I'm not familiar with it.

Hope this helps.

 

[virtualvisions]

I've had a similar thing with recording trumpet. More often than not its your tone...not the mic. I've also found that for some reason, recording into a mic can make your tone suffer because you don't have as much freedom to move around, and it causes you to feel constricted (the worst for brass instruments)

 

[Drumz519]

I would recommend aiming the mic at the side of the bell, not down it. This will grab more tone and less air. I've used a clip-on condenser by Audio Technica for horns and gotton great results.

 

[homestudioguy]

I am a t-bone player.
My horn is a large bore tenor and air flow does have an impact on microphones when I get in too close (Try it with a ribbon mic and you'll notice right away how much air flow is coming out)
I currently record my horn with an sE Titan.
I use a metal wind screen and PAD when up close or just the wind screen when backing off and adding room ambience.
The suggestions of trying different angles and distances are more than worthy.
On the SM57, I'd pull back about 12-24 inches with the mic above the bell pointing at the bottom of the bell for starters. Then adjust from there.
My 2 cents!

 

[tbone88]

thanks for the help.

 

[newyorkbrass]

Dude! Wrong microphone!!! use a condenser! Look at my recording guide for trombone at http://www.newyorkbrass.com/record-great-brass-sounds-in-your-personal-studio.html!

 

[bubbagump]

Uh huh...

Protools or Cubase do not care about the type of wave fed into them. This is the job of the Pre-Amp and the Microphone. Trombones, Trumpets and Saxes can be really loud in excess of 110db, but can also be soft below 50-60 db. The Pre-Amp is 60-70% of the input sound - more than the microphone! Some like the Neve 1073 or similar vintage sound and some like the focusrite or other Op Amp base preamps like Quad-Eight Pre amps or Jensen 990 based Pres. Another popular choice are the Avalon Pre-Amps. Whatever your choice, make sure you are using good equipment - you don't want to throw your money out the window.

Yeah, and placement, the room and the mic having little to do with it.... It is clearly impossible to record brass with a dynamic mic too.

 

[bubbagump]

I am a dope.... Mr NewYorkBrass was just replying to every brass related post to steer traffic to his site. Sigh... I fell for it. ^#*&^#*& off spammer.

 

[newyorkbrass]

No I just missed the topid date - that is unfair.

 

[bubbagump]

If it makes you feel any better, under all of those *&^#%*&^#$^ it simply says 'bugger". Seriously, digging up every old brass thread and putting a plug for your website sure looks fishy and spamish.

 

[Shadow_7]

I like the sound of ribbons for brass. But I also like my Avenson STO-2's for brass. At least in terms of closest sound match without EQ. Condensers are nice too, but many have odd EQ quirks, like hyped highs and/or hyped lows. Which isn't good for all brasses. Or even most brasses in some cases.

As far as air in the sound. Moving a well sealed slide on a trombone produces compression and suction of the air already inside (or not) the horn. For trombone, you don't want to close mic. And for brass in general, it's not good to get closer than 12 inches. They are all wind driven, but generally not enough wind to require a windscreen or pop filter, not that having one would hurt. When we put mutes in the bell it not only changes the tone of the horn, but the pitch as well. Put a mic in the same position as a mute, and you're just asking for trouble.

Certain brass players have a bit of air before tone as part of their sound. It takes a certain relaxed focus to generate a pure brass tone. For most people this doesn't come naturally. Even for pros, it could take four or more hours of playing before things start to work just right. Just trying to say it may not be the mic or the mic position. Better late than never I guess.

 

[tbone88]

Long since my last post, I have gotten a condenser (a CAD GXL2200) and it sounds amazing. No problem.