Transferring Multitrack Reels Into Computer?
- Thread starter bmg
- Start date
TalismanRich
Well-known member
There should be a ground point on the back of the Teac. Most all of my older gear had some type of ground point, usually you could connect a spade lug and tighten a screw to make a good connection, like between a turntable and preamp, or a preamp and tape deck. However, it you got a quiet signal on two channels but not on the other two channels, it's not a ground issue. All 4 channels should be grounded to the same point.
Your comment about the headphone feeds being clean might indicate that you're getting some intermittent or marginal contact with a cable. or connector. It might be tricky to track down.
Your comment about the headphone feeds being clean might indicate that you're getting some intermittent or marginal contact with a cable. or connector. It might be tricky to track down.
My first impression that something was up was a 'flickering' level on track 2 when the deck was idle, even though it was way down on the dB scale.
Some of the material needed boosting, so I did that through the interface, but this also brought up this noise that was previously basically inaudible.
Now I can hear it's on all tracks, and, like previously posted, increases because it's x's 4.
I'm not too happy bringing the deck in for servicing, as I worry it may change the sound after being properly calibrated, though this is probably a groundless (!) worry.
I notice when the machine is first turned on, there is absolute silence, then, after a second or two, it appears (though this is probably some kind of thermal protection, etc.)
Here's what I'm seeing with the deck's output at '10', and the interface volume at 12 o'clock:
Not sure if this is a case for worry, as my interface is usually at 7 o'clock.
Some of the material needed boosting, so I did that through the interface, but this also brought up this noise that was previously basically inaudible.
Now I can hear it's on all tracks, and, like previously posted, increases because it's x's 4.
I'm not too happy bringing the deck in for servicing, as I worry it may change the sound after being properly calibrated, though this is probably a groundless (!) worry.
I notice when the machine is first turned on, there is absolute silence, then, after a second or two, it appears (though this is probably some kind of thermal protection, etc.)
Here's what I'm seeing with the deck's output at '10', and the interface volume at 12 o'clock:
Not sure if this is a case for worry, as my interface is usually at 7 o'clock.
jimmys69
MOODerator
What is it you are seeing? I don't see anything myself, but I also have no idea what I am looking at since I don't use Reaper.
Are those supposed to be rendered representations of waveforms? I mean, is that just pegged to the max of clipping?
I am confused and can't really help because I just have no idea what I am looking at or why you posted it.
Ah, ok, I could not see the faint scale numbers on my phone. So that is just input level for each track I presume. So, without seeing a spectrum analyzer, I cannot tell what it is that is going on there. Is this just the input noise coming in to Reaper with the tape machine sitting idle?
Are those supposed to be rendered representations of waveforms? I mean, is that just pegged to the max of clipping?
I am confused and can't really help because I just have no idea what I am looking at or why you posted it.
Ah, ok, I could not see the faint scale numbers on my phone. So that is just input level for each track I presume. So, without seeing a spectrum analyzer, I cannot tell what it is that is going on there. Is this just the input noise coming in to Reaper with the tape machine sitting idle?
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jimmys69
MOODerator
And you may not realize the difference between - 52DBFS and -43DBFS is basically nothing in digital. Unless you hear some type of 60hz hum or something that could be shown with a frequency analyzer, I think you are completely over thinking all of this.
Here is a simple procedure based on the premise:
You have tapes. They were recorded as they were when you recorded them to analog tape. You wish to transfer to digital for archive purposes and/or further mixing. The first thing you would want to do is duplicate 'exactly' what is on the tapes.
So, you do absolutely nothing during the transfer from tape to digital that would change any levels of the original recording. You record to digital at the appropriate level that will not add any clipping, distortion, or adding noise to the original tape recording. After it is all transferred, then you make changes in gain and whatever to the mix.
In a digital recording, it is not necessary to keep levels anywhere near to clipping, because it is a completely different animal that analog recording. The noise floor with 24-bit recording is so low, you can crank it up tenfold and not have an issue. What you record to Reaper, even if as low as -40DBFS, will have basically the exact same noise level as the direct output from your tape machine, even after you digitally raise the gain 30db with either channel gain, a compressor, or whatever.
I think you may still not be understanding this digital thing yet.
Do you hear any hum? If so, maybe someone that uses Reaper can advise a plug to analyze that. To me, it seems fine.
Here is an idea, how about you post a MP3 link of what you are hearing/transferring so we can have a clue as to what it sounds like. That could give better insight for anyone to give advice from.
Here is a simple procedure based on the premise:
You have tapes. They were recorded as they were when you recorded them to analog tape. You wish to transfer to digital for archive purposes and/or further mixing. The first thing you would want to do is duplicate 'exactly' what is on the tapes.
So, you do absolutely nothing during the transfer from tape to digital that would change any levels of the original recording. You record to digital at the appropriate level that will not add any clipping, distortion, or adding noise to the original tape recording. After it is all transferred, then you make changes in gain and whatever to the mix.
In a digital recording, it is not necessary to keep levels anywhere near to clipping, because it is a completely different animal that analog recording. The noise floor with 24-bit recording is so low, you can crank it up tenfold and not have an issue. What you record to Reaper, even if as low as -40DBFS, will have basically the exact same noise level as the direct output from your tape machine, even after you digitally raise the gain 30db with either channel gain, a compressor, or whatever.
I think you may still not be understanding this digital thing yet.
Do you hear any hum? If so, maybe someone that uses Reaper can advise a plug to analyze that. To me, it seems fine.
Here is an idea, how about you post a MP3 link of what you are hearing/transferring so we can have a clue as to what it sounds like. That could give better insight for anyone to give advice from.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
Like JImmy, I'm not really sure what this is showing. Are the numbers shown on each track the noise level? How was this determined?
You also mentioned that your are using an older version of Reaper. It looks like a MUCH older version. I haven't seen anything that looks like this in the 8 or 9 years that I have used Reaper (going back to version 4).
If BMG can post a bit of the noise, 4 mp3 tracks of about 30 seconds each will let us analyze them and see what we really are dealing with here. Just 30 seconds of blank tape run through and recorded will be plenty.
You also mentioned that your are using an older version of Reaper. It looks like a MUCH older version. I haven't seen anything that looks like this in the 8 or 9 years that I have used Reaper (going back to version 4).
If BMG can post a bit of the noise, 4 mp3 tracks of about 30 seconds each will let us analyze them and see what we really are dealing with here. Just 30 seconds of blank tape run through and recorded will be plenty.
jimmys69
MOODerator
Yeah, it looks like the noise level peaks he has just from preamp into Reaper. Obviously that is relative to what he is giving Reaper from the preamp.
I just think he is thinking there should be no noise if the tape machine is not rolling. Something that we all would love to have, but just not a reality.
-42 is pretty quiet, but then not knowing what the level of the track is when it plays, what he shows has no basis to judge.
jamesperrett
Active member
It looks like he's using a Reaper theme that makes it look like 25 year old software - definitely a bit of a SAW vibe going on there. The bar graph meters are huge compared to the default theme. It would be a good idea to put an instance of the JS Frequency Spectrum Analyzer Meter plug-in on each track and show us what it looks like. This will tell us whether the problem is hum or hiss.
Here is the mp3:
View attachment test.mp3
Starting with no output knobs engaged, channel 1, then 2, etc. are added, one at a time.
View attachment test.mp3
Starting with no output knobs engaged, channel 1, then 2, etc. are added, one at a time.
Easy enough to ground even if it’s a two prong.
Unplug the tape deck from the daw or any thing else it’s plugged into. You want to just isolate the deck.
Get a length of speaker wire. Loosen a screw that is screwed into the metal chassis
Wrap wire around screw and tighten back up
The other end of the wire, wrap that around the center screw of your outlet. Tighten it up.
Now you have the ground of your deck grounded to your outlets ground.
Check in headphones for hum.
If it goes away, not being grounded is the culprit.
Unplug the tape deck from the daw or any thing else it’s plugged into. You want to just isolate the deck.
Get a length of speaker wire. Loosen a screw that is screwed into the metal chassis
Wrap wire around screw and tighten back up
The other end of the wire, wrap that around the center screw of your outlet. Tighten it up.
Now you have the ground of your deck grounded to your outlets ground.
Check in headphones for hum.
If it goes away, not being grounded is the culprit.
rob aylestone
Moderator
200 posts and were just going around in circles, and the little dribbles of extra info just confuse things. Can I clear a few things in my head?
you have a fully working and silent daw system?
when you plug in the reel to reel, without playing a tape, but powered up, you hear a hum?
stop there. Fix this first. A hum that starts when you plug in the cable indicates that it is the presence of the cable that is the first problem. The later chat about adding extra ground cables is probably wrong, because your audio cables have connected r2r ground to the DAW ground already. Extra cables will possibly make it worse, not better. How many xlr inputs do you have? Not sure which interface it is? If it is 4, there is a simple solution. Make up some cables and feed the reel to reel audio in on pins 2 and 3, with no connection to pin 1, and use the differential inputs to remove ground paths. If you have just two inputs, it’s not going to work of course.
the other question relates to levels. This hum, how far down from maximum is it? A loud hum or a really quiet hum? Digital has such a wide range that it’s possible there isnt a problem, and you’re just turning it up too much. I assume though, it sounds like a problem hum, as in a something that needs fixing.
we’re all getting very confused with your problem now, too many little dribbles of info, and posts are being missed.
you have a fully working and silent daw system?
when you plug in the reel to reel, without playing a tape, but powered up, you hear a hum?
stop there. Fix this first. A hum that starts when you plug in the cable indicates that it is the presence of the cable that is the first problem. The later chat about adding extra ground cables is probably wrong, because your audio cables have connected r2r ground to the DAW ground already. Extra cables will possibly make it worse, not better. How many xlr inputs do you have? Not sure which interface it is? If it is 4, there is a simple solution. Make up some cables and feed the reel to reel audio in on pins 2 and 3, with no connection to pin 1, and use the differential inputs to remove ground paths. If you have just two inputs, it’s not going to work of course.
the other question relates to levels. This hum, how far down from maximum is it? A loud hum or a really quiet hum? Digital has such a wide range that it’s possible there isnt a problem, and you’re just turning it up too much. I assume though, it sounds like a problem hum, as in a something that needs fixing.
we’re all getting very confused with your problem now, too many little dribbles of info, and posts are being missed.