Tracking bass that's tuned very low.

  • Thread starter Thread starter HangDawg
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HangDawg

HangDawg

bUnGhOlIo
I'm tracking a metal band and they tune below standard although I'm not sure where. I don't have a lot of problems with the guitars but the bass is complete crap. He's playing fast riff type stuff with the guitars and there is no definition. It comes out like one big rumble of garbage. Is there anything I can do to help get some clarity? I'm going to suggest new strings first. That might help a little. I might suggest he play with a pick, but I know that won't go over well. What else can I do?
 
HangDawg said:
I'm tracking a metal band and they tune below standard although I'm not sure where. I don't have a lot of problems with the guitars but the bass is complete crap. He's playing fast riff type stuff with the guitars and there is no definition. It comes out like one big rumble of garbage. Is there anything I can do to help get some clarity? I'm going to suggest new strings first. That might help a little. I might suggest he play with a pick, but I know that won't go over well. What else can I do?
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Have you tried some heavy compression yet? Maybe, compression and eq. I've made some somewhat muddy bass have decent sound this way, but this may not be what you need. Just a suggestion, if you haven't already tried it.
Ed
 
Dogman said:
Have you tried some heavy compression yet? Maybe, compression and eq. I've made some somewhat muddy bass have decent sound this way, but this may not be what you need. Just a suggestion, if you haven't already tried it.
Ed
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Nope, haven't tried it yet cause I'm still tracking. All I have at the moment are scratch tracks for the bass, but I can tell they are going to suck. I still have a chance to track them well and not have to fix them in the mix.
 
If his strings are old, your screwed. The only thing you can really go for is the Korn sound. Tons of compression and a crapload of clank.

If he has a good bass, try and go for more of a piano type sound. Roll off the lows and add some 300HZ and 2khz
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Ah, the name of my favorite alternative bluegrass band of the '60s! :D

G.
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Not to be confused with the 70's biker rock band 'Crapload of Crank'
 
Ahhhhh...Heavy Compression.

If you decide to go with the heavy compression, make sure that you do it with a slower attack so that the hit of each note has a chance to come through. Also, you might want to pay attention to the bass frequency content of your other tracks. Since you said that they are a metal band, I'm assuming palm mutted "chunky" guitars with Marshall stacks and lots of double kick. Try some high pass filters with a 6dB/8v slope centered around 80-120 Hz on the guitars to get rid of some of the low end junk that can step on the bass, especially since he's playing riff type stuff with the guitars. Also try EQing the mids after the compression so that you can get some accent on the notes, if you EQ the mids before heavy compression, you push your signal up past the threshold sooner and cause the lows to drop too low, taking all the balls out of the bass. Good luck.

M. Tristan
 
Bass players

HangDawg said:
...the bass is complete crap. He's playing fast riff type stuff with the guitars and there is no definition. It comes out like one big rumble of garbage...
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Perhaps the bass player simply plays rumbles of garbage. In that case, I'd just mix him low and hope noone notices.

Or, make him play through a new rig.
 
HangDawg said:
I'm tracking a metal band and they tune below standard although I'm not sure where. I don't have a lot of problems with the guitars but the bass is complete crap. He's playing fast riff type stuff with the guitars and there is no definition. It comes out like one big rumble of garbage. Is there anything I can do to help get some clarity? I'm going to suggest new strings first. That might help a little. I might suggest he play with a pick, but I know that won't go over well. What else can I do?
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send BMWerks a thread. he does a lot of mixing.
i was just listening to his CD and there's like some sub-sub bass going on, very clean tho.

his maybe midi and isn't heavy metal....but it was one of the things i noticed right off,

this extra low bass range... swampy, man, clean swampy super low bass floating around by the floorboard.
 
I wouldnt worry about it until the band says something about it. The metal band i work with likes to have the bass deep and less defined and let the guitars do the definition and that as a the supporting. Which is a little different that i expected. Whenever i would add in the 2k area to add definition they said it sounded too high pitched. I mean think about it, thats why they tune it down so much in the first place.

Ask them their opinion on what they want the bass to sound like. Or have them bring you a reference CD of how they want it mixed and make a special note on what the bass is doing.

I think the only person who will disagree is the bass player himself just because he of course wants to be heard. But make sure your mixing to the best of what they sound like as a band.

Danny
 
get the signal split on the way in and run one direct into the desk. These signals are usually cleaner and you can mix them together to add clarity that can get lost in amps/micing.

...my 2c :)
 
Fishybob said:
get the signal split on the way in and run one direct into the desk. These signals are usually cleaner and you can mix them together to add clarity that can get lost in amps/micing.

...my 2c :)
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Yep, I'm going to order a JDI Radial direct box today.
 
What is a decent box to split a signal with. I want to split before I go to my head and DI.
 
typical problem - too many notes on the low end = crap. have the bass player transpose his playing above the 5th fret or even higher. this way the notes get the clarity they need. the other option is to play less notes - a single well placed note is worth much more than many misplaced ones... a single solid note note backing the chord changes will do more to make the music "heavy" than all the high speed nonsense.

1. tranpose to higher register for clarity on many notes.
2. play single low notes to avoid mud.

not really a lot else you can do - eq mud = mud, DI mud = mud, etc... gotta solve this one at the source...
 
chadsxe said:
What is a decent box to split a signal with. I want to split before I go to my head and DI.
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The radial has a THRU out that goes to an amp along with the regular DI output.
 
bass volume knob

I have run into the same problem you have. in the tracking,the first thing that worked for me is to tell you bass player to turn his volume knob half way up instead of all the way open. this will cut your muddyness down 50%. In mix down process cut frequency at 100hz to 200hz 2db. after that stick a mild limiter on it. I hope this info helps you out.
 
I don't have any personal advice to offer but I could upload a song I have on a CD by a heavy band that tuned to A# that you could perhaps take some cues from. Let me know if you're interested and I'll get on it.
 
I now swear by GHS Progressives (Contact Cores). Had the same problem for years with my bass (tuned ADGCF). The contact cores (as typical of a piano string) don't overload the body with overtones especially if you play close to the bridge.
 
I don't get how some bassplayers just tune lower. I mean, the string tention is a very critical part of the sound and feel of an instrument and when you mess with it everything is affected. I rarely tune my low E down to a low Eb or D and even then I already feel like it's much more flabby than I would like. Going any lower is gonna screw with the sound so much I wouldn't even bother getting anything halfway decent from it. If he says the sound sucks, give it to him straight.
 
Halion said:
I don't get how some bassplayers just tune lower. I mean, the string tention is a very critical part of the sound and feel of an instrument and when you mess with it everything is affected. I rarely tune my low E down to a low Eb or D and even then I already feel like it's much more flabby than I would like. Going any lower is gonna screw with the sound so much I wouldn't even bother getting anything halfway decent from it. If he says the sound sucks, give it to him straight.
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Some guitars sound alright, Some sound like crap. It's all about finding the perfect balance of strings, wood, scale-length, pick-ups, set-up, and paint color.
 
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