Tracking a Singing Drummer???

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nate74
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Nate74 said:
Not sure how it is with other hobbyist recording guys but I don't exactly have bands beating down my door to pay me right now. If I'm lucky I do 5 or 6 paying bands a year, and in the past year or so, it's been half that. That being said, if these old dudes want to do it this way, that's what we'll be doing. I'll try the foam and crank his vocal mic in his headphones with the hopes of keeping his scratch vocals quiet. If we listen back to the first few takes and the drum tracks are jacked, I'll suggest that he just sing the first word of each line. If that doesn't work... maybe we try to get some keeper takes and just deal with it.
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Dude.

You will be trying to capture keeper drum tracks, and this buffoon is going to sing over them. You will have scratch vocals in the OH mix. Not keeper vocals, but something you ostensibly don't want - permanently living in the OH tracks.

Tell the guy that while you want to work with them, you have some professional standards, and that since your name is associated with the product as an engineer, that you expect that they will respect your professionalism and defer to your experience. That is, you're not telling them how to play, and they shouldn't tell you how to record.

Trying to capture scratch tracks while simultaneously getting keeper drum tracks is a waste of your time.
 
OK, so say I convince them that it's an issue. There are a handful of other options but each comes with it's own problems.

- Option 1: have the guitarist or harp player sing the scratch vocals on the songs the drummer usually sings. Problem: Neither the guitarist or harp player have ever had to sing the songs the drummer sings AND asking them to do so would certainly hurt thier instrumental performances.

- Option 2: have the bass player sing the songs the drummer usually sings since he'll be going direct and can theoretically overdub anything that gets messed up because he's trying to sing. Problem: if the bass player gets too far off, it may throw of the whole band and the take will be lost.

- Option 3: no vocals at all just eye contact. Problem, in blues and especially with this band, the "call and response" interaction between the vocals and the guitar/harp is pretty important. If they don't know where the vocals are, the "response" parts won't be right.

- Option 4: just have the drummer quietly sing the first word of each line. Problem: again the "call and response" interaction might be lost. Still might have some vocals in the overheads, but should be managable if it's quiet.

- Option 5: have the band record with the drummer singing full volume on take 1, then record a second take with the previously recorded vocals playing back in the headphones. Problem: the only way this works is if they play to a click, which I don't believe any of them could do.

- Option 6: Someone in the control room, maybe me, tries to sing his parts. Problem: I have to learn a dozen or more songs AND I can't imagine them being to fond of this approach.

- Option 7: put a decent mic, maybe a SM7 or a 58 Beta in front of him and hope for a usable vocal track. Problem: it means I'd have to use that mic for the other vocalists to try to keep the whole project consistent sounding which might or might not work.

I've played enough blues to know, the performance is 99% of it and messing with that will kill this project. In fact, part of why they came to me in the first place is that I've subbed with them a few times and they see me as a "real" blues guy.

Regardless of which approach I take, I'm going to piss off at least the drummer and most likely the guitarists.

So where do I go from here???
 
OP, the issue is the "scratch" part of the equation. If the singer was confident in his vocals then a live recording of a blues act is a good plan. Lots of jazz acts record this way, and my studio is set up for this kind of recording. He must commit to both tracks, however, because drums are in the vocal mic and vice versa.

Say you get a perfect take, but he hates the vocals. Take is worthless. Say you get a perfect vocal take, but the drums suck. Take is worthless.

Why don't you pose this issue to the band and let them figure out how to proceed? Your job is capturing the performance, and you're ready to do that.
 
just have him sing quietly and make sure he's accurate. The keeper vox will cover up any bleed that gets into the drums.
If they're old guys they ought to be able to comprehend the concept.
 
Do you have headphones for everybody? Let the drummer sing like normal, pipe him into everyone's headphones, but don't record his vocal track. He can record keeper vocals later.

If it's a loud band, chances are his vocals won't show up in the drum mics.

P.S. - singing drummers are stupid.
 
Greg_L said:
Do you have headphones for everybody? Let the drummer sing like normal, pipe him into everyone's headphones, but don't record his vocal track. He can record keeper vocals later.

If it's a loud band, chances are his vocals won't show up in the drum mics.

P.S. - singing drummers are stupid.
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Yes, everyone will have phones. I can actually send 4 different headphone mixes to the main room so I'm thinking I'll make the vocals pretty hot in the drummer's mix while he's singing with the hopes that it will encourage him to sing pretty quiet. If that still puts too much bleed into the OH, we'll go with plan B... or C.

And yeah, singing drummers are stupid.
 
Just don't record his tracks. Put him in everyone's headphones, but don't record him.
 
Greg_L said:
Just don't record his tracks. Put him in everyone's headphones, but don't record him.
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Not sure I follow. Are you saying not to record the vocals from the drummer or the drum parts? Not sure how I see either will help though...
 
Nate74 said:
Not sure I follow. Are you saying not to record the vocals from the drummer or the drum parts? Not sure how I see either will help though...
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Let the drummer sing his little heart out, put him in everyone's headphones, but don't keep his vocal tracks. Make him retrack later.
 
I'm not concerned with drums on the vocal track, just vocals on the drum tracks.
 
Greg_L said:
Let the drummer sing his little heart out, put him in everyone's headphones, but don't keep his vocal tracks. Make him retrack later.
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he's mainly worried about vocal bleed into the drum tracks.
Although I never record drumbs I'm gonna say unless he screams, the drumbs will drown out any vocal bleed.
 
Lt. Bob said:
he's mainly worried about vocal bleed into the drum tracks.
Although I never record drumbs I'm gonna say unless he screams, the drumbs will drown out any vocal bleed.
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Right. I thought it was the other way around. Sorry.

It's very unlikely that the drummers vocals will bleed into the drum mics so bad that it causes a problem unless it's a really quiet passage.
 
Greg_L said:
Like most commercially released "live" albums from major bands, I'd bet everything was overdubbed after the fact. Which coincidentally is what this guy should do.
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Oh I don't think so, this only happens to bands that can't play live.
 
jimmys69 said:
There is much truth in the fact that to be respected, you must direct a musician to perform at his best to get the most possible out of the performance. You must also be correct in your direction. It may seem like you could be putting someone off by demanding the way to achieve this, but if you don't-and it sucks........guess who is to blame? Your reputation and future work depends mostly upon the product you put out. Arrogant musicians that have no clue, are not worth your time. Arrogant musicians who can play, and listen to criticism, will allow you to work with more 'quality' projects. Great musicians are artists who care about the whole project and it's outcome. Seems 'seasoned' and 'great' are far departed in your case here.

I could be wrong as I am an arrogant drummer that won't listen to shit! LOL!
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Your a drummer too!!!
 
Greg_L said:
All bands can play live. Don't pretend that the lame ass Eagles are above overdubs.
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I saw the Eagles maybe 6 to 8 years back. Their vocals were awesome .... old and lame though they may be.
 
re: tracking a singing drummer

Bloodhounds and a laser sight.
 
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