too many cymbals

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I stripped down his kit to bare minimum, only kick, snare, hi-hat & ride cymbal.


That's the point I'm making. Can you imagine if somebody strung your guitar with only three strings and told you to suck it up?

Fuck!! It would be a short rehearsal, I can say that much.

The drummer doesn't get it. Instead of trying to make him get it, find somebody that already does.....
 
That's the point I'm making. Can you imagine if somebody strung your guitar with only three strings and told you to suck it up?

Fuck!! It would be a short rehearsal, I can say that much.

The drummer doesn't get it. Instead of trying to make him get it, find somebody that already does.....

that's exactly it. don't play with someone because they're available, play with them because your relationship is symbiotic.

it has nothing to do with "too many cymbals" but rather "too many cymbals for what we're doing."

if he's a beginner who's moldable, that's one thing. but if he's experienced and has developed a particular style, then that's his style. he may not be a bad drummer, just a bad fit for what your band is going for.
 
If he can't sound good on a small kit, ain't no way he'll be sounding any better on a large kit.

if he's a good drummer, he'll sound like a good drummer on any kit. but just because it sounds good to you doesn't mean it'll sound good to or be any fun for him. would you expect steve vai to be content playing background acoustic rhythm guitar to enya?

see previous post. :cool: :p
 
What I did when I had a drummer doing this, was I stripped down his kit to bare minimum, only kick, snare, hi-hat & ride cymbal.

OK! I agree with the minimalist approach, but this is one of the worst things that can happen, not just to a drummer, but ANY human being!!!!!!!!!!!

TO ALL GUITARISTS, VOCALIST, AND OTHER MUSICIANS IN GENERAL - NEVER DO THIS!!!!!

There is nothing more humiliating, infuriating, immasculating, etc, than to tell the drummer "Here's what you get to play with"! Like YOU get to decide!!!!!!!

AAARGH!!! I agree the drummer needs to learn to play what's needed for the song, but can you think of a better way to do it? Get him to listen, play it back, threaten to find someone else, but NEVER and I mean NEVER tell a drummer what drums and cymbals he gets to play!!!!

That's just plain bullshit!!

Supercreep is right! If we told you "You get to use these three strings only" you'd punch us in the face! Be expecting blowback if you go this route!

And if you think for ONE SECOND that I can't overplay on just a kick, snare, ride and a hi-hat just to piss you off - Buddy, you AIN'T SEEN NOTHING YET!!!
 
PhilGood has it right.

In High School jazz band, for one song, my band director told me just to use cymbals and hi-hat, nothing else.

I would do intense fills on the cymbals anyway :D
 
What I did when I had a drummer doing this, was I stripped down his kit to bare minimum, only kick, snare, hi-hat & ride cymbal.
Make him play for a couple sessions with just those, then slowly add things back into his kit. It will make a difference. Put him on stage with the bare kit, and see how he reacts. It worked for me, changed things for good, as I kept threatening to hide the damn toms and various cymbals.

If he can't sound good on a small kit, ain't no way he'll be sounding any better on a large kit.

My $0.02

Holy shit this is probably the worst thing I have ever heard in my life. I would love to see the day someone tried to limit my set just because I was playing like I want. Good advice Phil, no one should ever, ever do this.
 
We're not the muppet "animal"!

This is what's wrong with so many of the melodic instrument players. They think that they are the "masters of music" and that the drummers are wild animals to be trained by them.
With that type of attitude, it is no small wonder that they can't communicate with the drummer in the band. Any drummer that would subject themselves to that type of demeaning attitude is either VERY green and doesn't know any better, or is the type of brain damaged individual that the melodic instrument players think that a drummer is.
I see the problem and it is a problem that is equally shared by the drummer and the other musicians in the band..... they just aren't very good musicians and don't know how to play together. Learn how to communicate and share without pointing fingers.
 
What I did when I had a drummer doing this, was I stripped down his kit to bare minimum, only kick, snare, hi-hat & ride cymbal.

Wow - I can't beleive a drummer (even a rookie) would accept this type of treatment - and I am rather surprised the drummer didn't shove a pair of 2Bs up giantsizeflower's ass!!!!

I would truly hope no one else would consider this to be even remotely good advice.
 
out of curiosity whats the link to hear the song? i'm curious how it sounds haha
 
Makes you wonder if the title of this thread should actually be "The drummer is taking the spotlight off of ME!".:D;)
 
link

yes.....give us a link. i definitely want to hear this stuff.

Talk to the guy. Don't tell him that his playing sucks.....just ask if he could maybe lay off a bit and play more of a beat. if he can't change (and perhaps it's more of a matter of him not wanting to change) then find a different drummer, but talk to him first.

i would not be happy if someone took away some of my cymbals/drums and told me to make do with the remainder. no way.....anyways, people usually ask me to use more cymbals, as sometimes i'm happy without any crashes, just ride and hats. carrying around a bunch of stands to gigs in a pain in the buttocks. i set up my kit in 5-10 minutes and take about two trips to my car for gigs. i always laugh when i see people bringing racks, 5 toms, 2 snares and 9 cymbals to gigs where there are 3 bands playing. they take up so much time to setup that the patrons of bars/venues don't stick around for the whole show.....who wants 30 minutes of down time between bands. When I open up a venue one day, i'm going to have a basic set that stays on stage for all local acts as well as amps and the essentials.

anyways, talk to the guy. i'm sure you can work it out if you tell him that the next step would be finding someone else.....although you really need to make sure that your playing is in order before you confront him about his.
 
meh, there's a lot of cymbals, but there tends to be a lot of cymbals in this type of music.

to be honest, I'd worry less about the number of cymbals he has, and worry more about getting him to play cleaner (03 wasn't too bad, but 7 was waay sloppy).
 
Thats just it, I don't want to tell him how to play, because I would'nt want someone telling me how to play....the golden rule:)

I would never take away any part of his kit....that's all jacked up.
 
?

I really don't hear much of a problem as far as him hitting too many cymbals.......there is a lot of repetitive doube bass and a little sloppiness from time to time, but.......well ok maybe around the 3:10 mark on "7" there was a little explosion of cymbals with double bass, but i think your main problem is that there are no vocals and the one song is a pretty long jam. to each his own, though. I think the guitarist overplayed things just as much as the drummer does.

I guess i just expected to hear a tidal wave of cymbals.......while the songs/drumming aren't my cup of tea, i don't think ther are too many cymbals. at least you don't hear them on the recording as much.
 
meh, there's a lot of cymbals, but there tends to be a lot of cymbals in this type of music.

to be honest, I'd worry less about the number of cymbals he has, and worry more about getting him to play cleaner (03 wasn't too bad, but 7 was waay sloppy).


Agreed....7 is currently being re-recorded. He has made some good changes to that song. This song was originally written with a singer, which is why it was so long.

Thanks for the reply
 
The cymbals sound fine

re. #7
I don't like the sound of the snare on the rimshots (sounds like Lars on St.Anger), the snare is okay on the fills (why is that? What was being done on the sound?).
Did you record the drums first? Things don't really match up that well in a lot of places. It needs to be a lot tighter. The lighter passages sound good. Nice enough piece, sounds like you need to rehearse it a bit more (everybody) before you record it seriously. Everybody is good enough, you're all just finding your way with the piece though. You don't own it yet.
 
re. #7
I don't like the sound of the snare on the rimshots (sounds like Lars on St.Anger), the snare is okay on the fills (why is that? What was being done on the sound?).
Did you record the drums first? Things don't really match up that well in a lot of places.


Nothing special on the snare, just a little compression, maybe a little reverb too. I think he's just not hitting it consistent. Yes drums were recorded first to a click track per his request. (Which I found is really hard and kinda takes the live feel out of everything)
 
Wow - I can't beleive a drummer (even a rookie) would accept this type of treatment - and I am rather surprised the drummer didn't shove a pair of 2Bs up giantsizeflower's ass!!!!

I would truly hope no one else would consider this to be even remotely good advice.

It's not so much as rookie manuever, it's more like that is what happens when you live with your bandmates.

When you wake up in the morning, and before you even have that first cup of coffee, the tubes in the amps are already warmed up and you've played a couple of tunes.

When you can hear your drummer tapping his foot in a crowded room and know that he is thinking about the last fill in Achilles Last Stand.

When your drummer knows exactly what point your vocal fill comes in and leaves just enough air between his fills to let you hold that note for just another beat.

When you spend more money on tape than food cause you have to keep the tape rolling because there are so many songs coming out.

When the girls you slept with after last weeks shows still show up at the house because they actually like the music.

When you come off a 3 month tour and your drummer makes you sit down and finish the song you wrote at soundcheck right when you get home.

When you have the relationship in the rhythm section where you can stop on a dime and change time signatures on a whim cause you know that there is no way the train is going off the rails.

That is when you can tell them what to use on their kit, cause at soundcheck, he might come over to my amp and turn down the treble cause it sounds better that way. Because no matter what, when the band sounds better, we are all happier that way. If my drummer took 2 strings off my bass and told me to play that way cause it will sound better if I focus that way, then I would do that in a heartbeat, cause he knows I can sound better and he will do whatever it takes to get ME to sound better, even if it means putting me in a headlock and forcing me to stay on the one instead of doing an arpegio or something.

When I took away all my drummers stuff and left him with his stripped down kit, it was like we locked in that much tighter, and the fills that he did on the small kit were so great, he kept it that way for a few weeks, then gradually added things back into the kit.

It's like that time when he hid my 5 string bass from me cause he hated how the low B string sounded on certain songs. So I went back to the 4 string and never looked back.

It's like when the drummer stole the adapter to the guitarists pedal board cause it sounded so much better going straight into the marshall than through all those pedals.

When you have the relationships in the band that tight, the music is what matters most, not any individual and how much he wants to play. Gotta keep each other in check.

Try spending 87 nights in a row together in a rental van and see how much you have to say about each other's sound. And what you are willing to do about it.
 
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