tone, amps, and loudness

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johnnydanger

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I've been interested in buying a tube,class B tweed amp. I'm in a rock and roll band (kinda noisey British invasion,psychedelia garage sounds) not metal or hardcore. What I want to know is if it's possible to play in a band situation with an all tube amp as little as 15 watts and still be heard over drums? The reason I ask is my bandmate has a HotRod deluxe, great tone, but its way too loud even at 60 watts. I'm no wimp but I don't want to have to use ears plugs, they suck. And everyone knows tube amps really don't sound their best untill 6 or 7. (I'd go to eleven, just for that push over the cliff, though!). Is this hopeless? I just want good tone at a loud, but not a dangerous volume. If anyone had any experiences or advice to share, I would appreaciate it.
thanks--johnnydanger
 
I wouldnt go 15 at class B... but Ive had fun with 30 watt amps..But Ive found I need the power of my 50watter on stage, and I dont really care about tone when practicing...

xoxo
 
15 watts isn't enough.Most drummers can fart louder than that.40-50 watts will give you enough oomph to compete.
Tom
 
If you like the tone of the small amp, you could always mike it and send it thru the the sound system.

However, you'll never need more than a 50w amp. If you do, it'll be your sound man's proplem.
 
I have a 20 watt Deluxe Reverb that competes easily with the drums. My problem is the other guitarist with the 100w amp who thinks he cannot hear himself if he can hear my guitar. Ever go through this? A 10 minute fight about balancing guitar levels, then as soon as you start a song, you see out of the corner of your eye, that sonofabitch sneaking over and cranking his amp back up to where it was. Damn.
 
I guess it depends on the style of music and the drummer's playing volume. A lower wattage amp will do for let's say, a jazz drummer. I had a Marshall JTM30 (30watts) that got pretty beefy, 15 watts just seems a little light for a "kinda noisey British invasion,psychedelia garage sounds"
As far as the other guitarist being too loud thing. You guys are mismatched. A 100 watt amp won't start to sound good until you turn the volume to a point where it will obliterate the 20 watt. Maybe this guy just has a volume he feels plays best. Or maybe he's an asshole.
 
My recording amp is a vintage '58 Gibson GA6 with 18 watts.I love the tone and even gigged with it back in college.I had my tech buddy install a line out jack so I could run it through the PA.
Boy was that a bad idea!Ever hear guitar through piezos?I am definately against putting a guitar through the PA as it changes the tone way for the worse.
For gigging,I have a custom 100 watt tube amp built on a Twin chassis, but that is too loud for most clubs so I pull the outside pair of output tubes and run it as a 50 watt.That seems just about right for most club gigs.
Tom
 
Actually my style of music could loosely be considered in the british invasion-psychadelic-garage genre. And the drummer is a heavy hitter. I used to think that I needed a high wattage amp so I got a solid state laney- 100watts. Truth be told, its not that much louder than my deluxe. The other guy I play with plays through-- a 100w laney. Cheap bastard.

At some point, I'll probably get a twin or super reverb, but here's the situation with loud amps as I see it: You're right about the tube gain issue, which is precisely why a lower wattage amp is better. It's loud enough to use for monitoring on the stage, but sounds hot at a volume that is manageable for the soundguy. Put a 57 up to the grille cloth and you've got the sound you want and the stage volume both you and the soundman can live with. In anything but a huge auditorium, you'll never need anything more.
 
I've been known to play using a Vox AC-15 and that thing is loud as crap. It WILL be heard over a drumset no doubt. But the bugger is kind of expensive ($6-800).
One of my favorite "sleeper" amps I use is a Fender Pro Jr. It can be had used for around $200. It is 15W tube through a 10" Fender vintage speaker. Only a volume and tone control. My group practices in a small auditorium, about 50' by 70' with high ceilings, and I just crank it up to 11 (yea, there is an 11!) and I usually have to back down cause it pisses off my drummer. It CAN be that loud. The amp sounds sweet at about 6 and its not ripping your ears off.

To answer the original question, I think THIS is the amp you're looking for. We play music that is kinda U2/Delirious?/Paul Oakley so pretty close to your sound I think.
Oh yeah, and can you get volume? I played at an outdoor festival 2 years ago using it mic'd with an sm57 and it just rocked! About 5000 people crowd outdoors...sounded great.
 
This is exactly the reason I went for a Mesa Solo 50 Rectifier instead of a Dual 100watt recto. I tried the Dual rectofier, which was only $200 more that the single and It was just way too loud. And Actually the 50 watt head sounds like most 100 watt amps i've played. One thing being described here is the differnce of an amp that is really outputting at the power it is advertised. True 15 watts is enough to drive a 12" or even two 12" speakers quite niecely. But your going to pay. Like the one post said amps that are true to their rating are usually more expensive. This is probably something you will really have to try and see how it goes. I always like a little head room in my guitar rig just in case I need it. Oh yeah, any amp mic'd through a 500 watt PA system is going to be enough. That's a whole other ballgame, than playing in a small band with no PA.
 
Classic British amp would be the Vox AC30.
Problem is they have a rep as being not too reliable on the road, but the sound is definitely there.

If you have the money, then check out a Matchless amp.
Basically, it's a handmade AC30.

foo
 
15 Watts !

15 watts sounds good but it has never been loud enough in the bands i've played in. If you have say a 15 watter and a 50 watter, you make a L pad with 2 resisters tying that in at the seaker out of the 15 watter. It can be done on the inside or if you want to do it the easy way, coming off of the speaker itself. If you don't have an understanding of how a L pad would be used, take it to a tech. With this method you capture the output tubes and output transformer of the 15 watter and the L pad lowers the voltage enough to plug into a 50 watt guitar amp. It will not change the tone of the 15 watt amp, but the bigger amp could start to add its on color. It beats going through a solid state amp, pa cabs, monitors.
 
Thanks for the replies- no, the other guitarist isn't an asshole, he's just got the beastly amp right now- my Deluxe 112 plus (SS fender) just dosn't compete or compliment sonically as well as either of us like. I'm thinking 15 to 30 watts should really be enough in my case. I recently tried another friends Twin, but it's really hard to push that amp without losing hearing, or crank it in the various settings I record in. I did push the twin to about 8 for a track and it was one of the best sounds I have ever heard when playing, and on tape.
We do have a good PA system so a Blues Jr, or the Blues Deluxe might be the answer for now. I won't be able to afford a Vox yet, so I'll have to try out the lower wattage Fenders and see if they have enough to offer.

johnnydanger
 
my other guitarist has his head up his ass sometimes... so we cock his amp back so that its pointing DIRECTLY at his ears. that usually helps. And he has the 35 watter, whereas I have the 50 watter, and more common sense.

xoxo
 
In my previous band, I was sharing rhythm/lead work with a keyboardist, and damn it if he ALWAYS tried to turn up louder than me! And to top that off, he ain't a solid group player, to put it nicely.
I made an amp stand for myself for that reason, so at least I could hear myself well! Being in a group can be a bitch, especially if another player is tone deaf (that just sucks the life out of anything) or has any placement problems, such as phrasing or dynamics.
rock on--johnnydanger
 
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