Tom mics

  • Thread starter Thread starter MadAudio
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MadAudio

MadAudio

Damned if I do
While I'm getting a good tom sound with my good ol' 57's, the amount of bleed is just ridiculous. So I'm thinking of getting something different. I was thinking about Sennheiser e604's, but they aren't hypercardiods. Also under consideration is the Audio Technica Pro 25ax.

Anyway, any comments would be appreciated.
 
MadAudio said:
While I'm getting a good tom sound with my good ol' 57's, the amount of bleed is just ridiculous. So I'm thinking of getting something different. I was thinking about Sennheiser e604's, but they aren't hypercardiods. Also under consideration is the Audio Technica Pro 25ax.

Anyway, any comments would be appreciated.
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Beyer M201s. Hey, maybe I could bring mine to your studio sometime to play with? It'd be cool to see your setup.

Forgot to mention, not only is the pickup tighter, the sound is tight too. I think they totally kill the 57s, and I am neutral between the 201 and the MD421.
 
Bleed with the SM57? That seems odd. You will be getting more bleed using the other mics you mentioned. The 57 is very unidirectional. I've used the e604's and those sound great, but I noticed a little more bleed than the 57's. You might not need new mics but maybe a good noise gate/comp. Drawmer makes an awesome unit called the DS201. Check into that before spending the extra money on more mics you probably won't need.
 
Mad, what kind of bleed are you getting. To other toms? Hearing too much f the other drums and kit?

What kind of music are you recording?

57's stink on toms. IMO, 57's are more limited in studio applications than people think. They work on snare, amps, leslie cabs, and the occasional vocalist [ if you've got a nice chain to track through ]. I wouldn't call that a versatile mic.
 
mshilarious - Yeah, the Beyer M201 is a great mic. I have one that I got used on eBay that is now my dedicated snare mic. But I'd be glad to show you my set up sometime. I'll PM you about it this week.

night'schild - Wow, the e604 is less directional than the 57? I guess that one comes off the list, then. I don't see how the AT, which is hypercardiod, could produce more bleed, though. And I prefer not to gate while recording. I can deal with it afterwards, but that sometimes takes too long. And actually I want to reduce the bleed, not get rid of it entirely.

Dot - I should know better by now than to leave out all the details, LOL. Bleed is too much of the rest of the kit. I'm recording hard rock. I have the toms submixed and am recording them as a stereo track. I have been thinking about giving each tom its own track, though.

Thanks, folks. Anyone else?
 
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despite the sm57 sucking on toms part, maybe part of your problem is positioning? Like someone else pointed out, 57's are very directional. When I first started recording drums, I had no idea how to position the mics and everything bled through. After some experimentation, I ended up pointing the mic down towards the head angled somewhat away from the rest of the kit and at about 2-3" above head just inside the rim. That worked pretty well for me. If that's not the issue then I appologize, but I figure it was worth pointing out.
 
Ever hear of a noise gate? :D Seriously, it's not going to kill ya or anything as long as you've got overhead mics going at the same time and you use reasonable settings.
 
OneRoom - Uh yeah my question does seem kinda noobish, doesn't it? I've been doing this for several years, and I'm well aware of the importance of placement. Believe me, it took me a couple of hours to get the mics where they sounded best, which is similar to your description, LOL.

Chess - I repeat: I don't like to gate while recording. I do gate during mixdown. I have plenty of outboard gates and a decent gate plug-in.
 
chessrock said:
Ever hear of a noise gate? :D
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LMAO! :)

Since when is bleed bad?

How bad ...and what is bleeding?

I've had bleed to some extent on every record I've ever worked on. The only reason I don't use 57's on toms is because of the firing position. I prefer 421's located in between the toms, they get hit less and they pick up everything just fine.


SoMm
 
The bleed you get on 57s isn't too nice. You need to make space for their own tracks and gate them! Failing that ... get a mic that bleeds nicer. :)
 
Bleed is bad when you get too much bass drum, snare, or cymbals on your tom tracks. I am sure we have all been there!

Mad Audio if you gate later thru a plug-in you have a different dynamic.
What you are doing now isn't working, right?
Just imagine 15 years before Pro Tools people had to trust their judgement and were stuck with whatever settings there gear was on, and in that time period some of the best sounding records were ever produced.

A new mic isn't always the solution. My best drum sounds came using a couple room mics, a stereo mic, and only the bass and snare mic'ed.

I am sure you have resolved phase issues, but that seems to be a big part of getting a bad tom sound.
 
Mad Audio sorry in my last reply I forgot to mention gates do not totally get rid of bleed they lessen it. Most gates let you pick and choose what freq to cut out at, so if are noticing too much bass or cymbal then you set your gate accordingly.
 
Mad Audio, are you saying you used two mics to record more than two toms? If so, then yeah, you should probably try putting a mic on each one. There's no way to tell if it helps or not unless you give it a go, and if it works, that'd save you a heck of a lot of money. :)
 
Yea, I don't think I'm really understanding this thread very well. You don't like bleed, yet you're only using two mics for more than one tom ? You don't like gating while you track, but you do when you mix ... none of this is really making any sense. :D Need more info.
 
I don't think he is saying that he is recording more than 2 toms with only 2 mics, but what he said is that he sub mixed the toms into a stereo track.

That in my book could be one of the problems. Maybe having different gates at different freqs on different toms would be better for you.

Why did you decide on the sub mix method Mad Audio? I am not knocking it just curious.
 
I say go with e604s. They probably do bleed a little more than the 57 but its usually a good sound. The more bleed you have the more you have to worry about phase problems. Last thing you need is 3 other mics picking up the snare out of phase. Thats why in general its easier for me to hard gate them if its a quicky setup. If youve got an automated system though, whether its software or hardware you dont really need a gate, especially if the gate isnt very optional. Just turn the volume of the toms down to where you want them when they are done hitting. I normally use a hard gate and cut out all the stuff thats bleeding into toms for hard rock stuff.

And, i love e604s on toms. I only have two MD421s or id use those probably. And sometimes i use the MD421s on other things.

Danny
 
Hey, this one's gettin' lively! Sorry for any confusion.

OK, more detail is in order. Here's my deal - I have a demo/project studio in my house. I have a studio and a separate control room. I'm also in a new band, and we use the studio as rehearsal space. And since we have the gear, we record our rehearsals. I've been getting really good results and I've been tweaking the set-up to prepare for our eventual demo. (I keep everything mic'ed up for convenience, but I've still got enough open channels for my clients.)

Kick - Beyer TG-X50
Snare - Beyer M201
Toms - one SM57 for each, total: 3
OH - MXL 603's (which I like, but did have to dick around with positioning for awhile to resolve phase issues)

I'm using a total of 6 inputs on Layla #1 for the drums - kick and snare each get their own track, toms and OH to their own stereo tracks. I'm using a total of 12 inputs for the whole band, so that's why I went with the tom submix.

I think I'm gonna try giving each tom its own track first. One more input shouldn't tax the computer much more, and it's been doing fine so far. And I'll even try using my gates despite my reluctance to do so. (EDIT: night'schild, I'd have to hook up the key inputs of my outboard gates to an external eq for that method, but I don't think I need to go that far) I've got 2 dbx 363x's which I think would work well. They're pretty easy to tweak.

Thanks to everyone for replying. You've probably saved me some money! :D
 
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