$ to start a "pro" studio

  • Thread starter Thread starter wes480
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pipelineaudio said:
its a minor point...I was just assumiong this configuration:

Patchbay 1 :
top row: mic lines from snakes
full normalled to
bottom row: mic preamp ins

Patchbay 2 :
top row: tape machine output
half normalled to
bottom row: Console tape return ( or line in or another patchbay to do both)

Patchbay 3 :
top row : channel insert send
half normalled to
bottom row : channel insert return

patchbay 4:
top row direct out/mic pre out
half normalled to
bottom row: tape machine input

patchbay 5:
facilities; aux send and return, mix outs, group outs, etc...migfht need a few bays for this

patchbay 6: outboard

might be overkill but you know :)

actually with 96 poijnt patchbays a 24 track studio would be well under this like you say, but leave room to grow

and again ,this is just my style of building...if you work in a different way you could get a way with a lot fewer...I see a lot of midi guys with tremendous power needing only to patch a few things...

how is yours set up ?

thanks for the welcome BTW :)
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Well, since you are only using half of the available patchpoints on each patchbay, you are certainly leaving a LOT of room to grow. That, plus the fact that I use an XLR patchbay for mic inputs (makes me less nervous about phantom power, and leaves more flexibility for mic patching) would explain why I'm getting by with half as many bays. But, if you're planning on expanding from 24 to a 48 track set-up soon, then I can see the logic for leaving half of every bay empty.
 
littledog said:


Well, since you are only using half of the available patchpoints on each patchbay, you are certainly leaving a LOT of room to grow.
Click to expand...
Its called rental space ;)
If your running a fairly decent 24 trk facility, sometimes you don't have what they(client) wants to use. So having the ability to patch these rentals for a 3 or 4 month period is always a nice feature, nobody likes run out of options right.
That reminds me of being at the eye doctor, is its clearer with this one.....or this, is it clearer with this one.....or this. Its still blurry....


SoMm
 
"That, plus the fact that I use an XLR patchbay for mic inputs (makes me less nervous about phantom power,"

Smart man!!! I like to live dangerously

"and leaves more flexibility for mic patching)"

I dont understand this part
 
pipelineaudio said:

"and leaves more flexibility for mic patching)"

I dont understand this part
Click to expand...

Not a biggie - I was just thinking that in your system you "have" to plug into one of your hardwired snakes to get a mic into a preamp. With an XLR patchbay in the control room, if I need to throw up a mic or two in the control room I can just plug them right into the patchbay. It may not be any advantage depending on how many snakes you have and where the inputs are located.

Diff'rent strokes...
 
yeah youre right...Im always bitching about how few TT to XLR adapters we have ...guess you dont have that problem
 
Damn,I shouln't stay away so long,getting in way late on all this good stuff.

I don't think there is really any set amount of money required to start a professional studio. The way I think of a professional studio is one that pays its own rent,bills,maintainence and upgrades as well as pays at least one person a full-time salary. If it has the tools and people to meet the needs of its clients,that is all that matters.

The reason I say this is unless some disaster occurs,I am going to quit the day job after the first of the year and go full time at this.I started cobbling this place together in 1996 and have been working out of here part time since 1998 and it has finally gotten to the point where the day job is becoming a liability because what I am making with the studio.I have put a grand total of $30,000 into the whole shebang including everything I have done to the room.I don't have a whole lot of gear,but what I have is good reliable stuff and I have gotten pretty good with it. Paying off the mortgage a couple years ago and having it sitting on paid for property doesn't hurt either.

What I have found out is that the regular clients I have developed don't really care what equipment I am using or if the room is sonically flawless. They are coming because they like to work with me and they feel comfortable working here.

I am not posting all this stuff to toot my own horn or anything,I just want to encourage anyone here who has the dream of making that jump that it can be done.

What has been effective for me so far is to seek out the sector of the marketplace that doesn't require a megabuck facility to meet their needs and target that market. Performing songwriters are a big cash cow around here. Bluegrass and folk groups church groups,karaoke singers,band demos,etc. Most of it not very glamorous work,but good to cut your teeth on while you work your way up. Adding CD duplicating services has been a huge bonus,and I would highly recommend it to anyone. Last saturday I spent 10 hours putting together a 4 song demo and then spent an hour and a half burning and labeling 100 cds and made as much money on the cds as I did for the whole session.


Building relationships with some of the larger studios in town has been extremely helpful.When someone approaches me with a project that is beyond what I am equipped to do here,I will send them to one of the bigger dogs.Conversely,when they are approached by a project with too small a budget or even performers who are uncomfortable in a big studio,they will shoot them my way.

Oh God,I have been rambling on again.I just wanted to encourage everyone to go for it if you want it. Creative thinking can make a lot happen.


Peace
 
I just print them from the PC on normal paper and have 'her indoors' cut them with the scissors.

On a more serious note.......

What is a "pro" studio?
In my opinion this is a commercial studio with an ability to provide its owners / investors with a potential return on investment.
And therein is the problem.

I know some wonderfull studios with well over 2 million investments in them - providing no return.
Why? Because the studio is only as good as its staff. If a studio has staff capable of attracting clients, because of their excisting reputation, or because they are building a good reputation, the studio will do well. If you invest in a studio 'because its cool", but you don't have the ability to turn out quality product (regardless of the gear and rooms), you will never earn any money - period.
 
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Exactly right. There are a couple of $1 million studios here in town that can't do diddly because there aren't any professionals working there.

Probably the biggest gripe I hear about the "big" studios in this area is an unwillingness to listen to the client and make an honest effort to give the client what he/she wants within reason.
"well,that's not how we do things here" seems to be a catch phrase. I had a young referred to me awhile back who's first question was "do I have to sing in one of those cramped,stuffy little booths?" my answer,"not if you don't want to" As it turned out,she was a bit claustrophobic and didn't take well to vocal booths. The guys at the "biggie" told her that was where the vocal mic resides and that was where she had to sing to make it sound right.As a result,she got nothing usable on tape and parted with some hard earned money. I set her up in my main room here and she sang beautifully. Customer oriented? Duh,what's that?



Peace
 
the studio can have the best staff in the world and the best equipment in the world and not make money...EASY

the prices just arent where they oughtta be

someone please do the math for me :)

if you buy an SSL J-9000 loaded 56 channels ( small ) and a studer a - 827...JUST those two, and charged 150 dollars an hour

how long would it take to make the equipment money back...NOT counting salaries NOT counting the rest of the equipment NOT countin rent
 
...not to mention the Steinway...

your point is well taken. but that's why such a high percentage of studios lease their big-ticket items instead of buying them. Even so, it's a big nut to carry.
 
thats not MUCH less money, in fact it can be more...it is only different in that it is not as long of a term
 
Leasing has its tax advantages.
The problem is that its only finanncially advantageous over longer terms. These days gear dates so fast, I would not want to commit myself to any lease over 2 years. (in other words - no leasing for me).

The problem of owning a studio becomes very aparent if you treat it as any normal business, and then it just does not stack up.
Over here I'm working on a base cost of just over $7500 a month, and that is pure running costs (utilities, property taxes, maintenance, insurance, accessoiries, from towels to toilet paper, cable, gear replacement etc. ) This figure does NOT include wages or any such thing, neither does it calculate equipment upgrades, which are always happening (or - have to happen).

Add to this base figure wages, cleaning, accounting, marketing, and all normal costs, and you have a scenario where you have to charge a minimum of between 800 and 1000 a day just to keep running, and do that preferably 7 days a week.
 
pipelineaudio said:
the studio can have the best staff in the world and the best equipment in the world and not make money...EASY

the prices just arent where they oughtta be

someone please do the math for me :)

if you buy an SSL J-9000 loaded 56 channels ( small ) and a studer a - 827...JUST those two, and charged 150 dollars an hour

how long would it take to make the equipment money back...NOT counting salaries NOT counting the rest of the equipment NOT countin rent
Click to expand...

1000 hours.
 
So here I see an actually business case for getting a pro- tools rig, you significantly reduce costs. If being competitive means having the "popular" setup, then having a Neve which easily costs more than a house becomes a financial liability. If your investment returns are less than your expeditures, bankrupture is inevitable. With alot of the automobile and areospace industries going to lean manufacturing and head count reductions, Neve's API, etc any large format desk looks like a boat anchor regardless of its quality. Its a matter of survival for studio's who are on that borderline market. What might happen as a result is that price reductions will start happening on the high end stuff because low profits are always better than no profits.

If my math is right, a budget big desk will cost you
over 180,000 greenies, and 85,000 for the 827 with a remote.
$265,000/2088 hrs(typical 5 to 9 day, 2 wks vacation, some sick leave and not working weekends)gives you $126.92 per hour required just for your 2 things. But...your probably paying interest so, it gets worse. Lets add in staff to that, and food for clents, insurance for people and equipment and building. Oh and then there are the taxes, the other equipment, electricity, garbage, water..etc.... Ok I forgot PC or Mac, wiring cabling. Well, from my experiences Ive seen cost run into the $10,000 to $15,000 per month for non-human expenses. I don't know about salaries for "employees" but you can see why free interns are attractive to the borderlines.

Can anyone see why big studios really just don't appear, but they are usually built over long periods of time. I told my wife that I would never own and operate a studio as a business venture, but I would do what I could on a cash only basis to meet my minuscule needs.

Im not it to make money, thats my day job. If recording was my day job Id be an avionics system design engineer on the weekends. When I got married thats where the line was drawn, which one makes me money now. Goodbye, yellow brick road.

SoMm
 
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