To Preamp or not to Preamp

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Thunder27

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I have a home studio and use an Apollo Twin X to record with.
I also have a Zen Tour with all the plugins.
I do like Unison for certain things on the Apollo as well.
However sometimes feel I'm lacking the depth in recordings.
I don't have any hardware other than an ISA One with the digital card.
I have noticed that I get more clarity, depth and sort of roundness from the Antelope converters.
To me they just sound better.
I record with the ISA One as well and find that even though I have the digital card, the sound to me was more pleasing recording into the Mic Pre and Analog out into Line of the Antelope.
I was looking the other day at the Warm Audio WA273 2 Channel Mic Pre.
Could this improve what I already have? Or am I wasting my money. I know that Burl, BAE etc make great stuff but out of my price range.
Was wondering if I could get any feedback on someone who has used the Warm Audio and an opinion if this could improve what I already have.
There are too many opinions displaying the pros and cons, so it really doesn't give a clear snapshot of how this unit really is.
Thanks in advance.
 
The problem here is that you are in possession of some gear that has the sort of status hi-fi enthusiasts put on their esoteric gear.

We cannot answer your question - another 800+ device will certainly sound different, but you are already using posh kit, and the tiny differences you can hear will be personal. It's sort of like a wine connoisseur wondering of the good summer of 1986 makes it worth buying a case. I don't doubt you can hear what these things do - but I really don't hear the buzzwords like clarity and depth? I hope somebody else can advise. I spend money on mics, rarely posh interfaces and preamps because I don't have the room or sound sources where they'd make a quantifiable difference.
 
To Preamp or not to Preamp. Well, I just recently Preamp'd and it made my Setup 100x better... HOWEVER! My reason for Preamping was not to "get more clarity, depth and sort of roundness" from a new Preamp... in fact... I don't buy into that stuff... what I got however was a cleaner recording with no hum or buzz or added noise to the signal. I think I was (am) dealing with a ground loop or some sort of electrical issue in my Audio Interface/Preamp and the new Outboard 500 Series Preamp (running over ADAT into said Audio Interface) is 100x better than what I was recording with prior. That being said... I bought my Preamp (Cranbourne Audio Camden 500) for a cleaner signal, and the Warm Audio WA273 (Neve Clone) is definitely not attempting to give you a "cleaner" signal. ;)
 
rob aylestone said:
The problem here is that you are in possession of some gear that has the sort of status hi-fi enthusiasts put on their esoteric gear.

We cannot answer your question - another 800+ device will certainly sound different, but you are already using posh kit, and the tiny differences you can hear will be personal. It's sort of like a wine connoisseur wondering of the good summer of 1986 makes it worth buying a case. I don't doubt you can hear what these things do - but I really don't hear the buzzwords like clarity and depth? I hope somebody else can advise. I spend money on mics, rarely posh interfaces and preamps because I don't have the room or sound sources where they'd make a quantifiable difference.
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Thanks Rob, I have been getting that feeling myself. If the difference is minimal it makes no sense. I would probably have to spend much much more and possibly even then would I need it? Thanks for chiming in.
 
Ujn Hunter said:
To Preamp or not to Preamp. Well, I just recently Preamp'd and it made my Setup 100x better... HOWEVER! My reason for Preamping was not to "get more clarity, depth and sort of roundness" from a new Preamp... in fact... I don't buy into that stuff... what I got however was a cleaner recording with no hum or buzz or added noise to the signal. I think I was (am) dealing with a ground loop or some sort of electrical issue in my Audio Interface/Preamp and the new Outboard 500 Series Preamp (running over ADAT into said Audio Interface) is 100x better than what I was recording with prior. That being said... I bought my Preamp (Cranbourne Audio Camden 500) for a cleaner signal, and the Warm Audio WA273 (Neve Clone) is definitely not attempting to give you a "cleaner" signal. ;)
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Haha, thanks for the info. I struggle with Neve Plugins is why I mentioned this as well. Where most wanna turn up the drive, in the uad plugin I use thd gain drive as a master and turn the volume up. Defeats the purpose right? I'm sure the original Neve sounds great. Cheers.
 
interesting Antelope comments, I have the Zen Go , 2 channel and felt the same way. It has a really nice sound. The preamps are discrete I read.

I think you could spend a lot of time trying preamps, I did. Which one you like good luck..someone else will not like it, others will recommend something better..etc.
Its a fun trip though, IC designs and Transformer and Discrete designs and Tube designs. My 2 cents was how little difference there were overall.

I've got the ISA with digi card and never use it other than to know it worked. I don't want to convert my signal 3 or 4 times for no reason...outboard was to enjoy the analog thing (placebo or not? I don't know anymore.) Mic IN, LINE OUT, to LINE IN...one conversion and its usually 24/44.1, I don't need huge files of 192.
ISA One is as someone said a Swiss Army knife, its more than just the sound/tone, its just got ability, potential to handle any mic easily, well laid out, etc..etc..all the I/O, Z etc..
I don't think there's anything better, maybe different, but its a cool tool. The shape might not be for everyone. The ISA two and my 430 all sound like the same family, same design born of the 110 fame. George Martin wanted a little cleaner with more high end, than the 1073 Neve, is how I read it.
 
CoolCat said:
interesting Antelope comments, I have the Zen Go , 2 channel and felt the same way. It has a really nice sound. The preamps are discrete I read.

I think you could spend a lot of time trying preamps, I did. Which one you like good luck..someone else will not like it, others will recommend something better..etc.t hav
Its a fun trip though, IC designs and Transformer and Discrete designs and Tube designs. My 2 cents was how little difference thet re were overall.Hey cool c

I've got the ISA with digi card and never use it other than to know it worked. I don't want to convert my signal 3 or 4 times for no reason...outboard was to enjoy the analog thing (placebo or not? I don't know anymore.) Mic IN, LINE OUT, to LINE IN...one conversion and its usually 24/44.1, I don't need huge files of 192.
I like. Yes I have gone down the guitar pickups rabbit hole and certainly dont want to do that with the preamps. I think I may just have to work with what I have.
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Thank for the comments.

Ok not sure what happened to my message I wrote, so I'll try to remember what I wrote.
Yes the Antelope pre's are definitely the best that I have. I have gone down the rabbit hole of guitar pickups, so I certainly don't want to go down the preamp one, which would be an expensive venture. The ISA One has lots of features but truthfully I have only used it for my SM7B and my B42 Ribbon mic because I needed the gain that ISA has tons of. And I never really liked the sound of the digital card so I always used it with the Analog out.
It does have a certain sound, but to my ears it's good but there isn't anything there that is blowing me away when I listen back. I have been actually considered selling it since I only use it for the gain on those specific mics and could get a cloud lifter, and thats where I thought to get the warm audio as a replacement to see if I would have something a little different. As I mentioned in another comment, although there would be times I used the Neve plugins through Unison on my UAD TwinX , I always found that I'm not crazy the way it overdrives the sound, I found using it in the opposite manner. I would have the volume up and use the fain as a master volume for a clean signal but still going though it. Antelope has their version of the plugin as well named the BAE Neve, which is a bit better, but I still am not hearing what everyone else is hearing when it comes to Neve plugins. Perhaps if I went through an actual Never strip I would say, there it is! I do use the plugins and perhaps I could spent time trying to figure out different ways to make them work, but then I say to myself, when something is good, it's easy to dial it in. Based on the comments, it's swaying me away from the Warm Audio, but I'm not completely out. I wish I could plug in and test it and I would know in one pass it it's something that I could use. But I don't have that option. Again nothing may really change that much unless I go into higher end gear. Am I chasing a ghost?
Thanks for your feedback CoolCat
 
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I think you're chasing a ghost... but don't let that stop you from GASing for a Neve... haha. I mean... I still have one eye on the new DIYRE Pre73 myself... however the Preamp that I have, actually has a "Color" circuit... that supposedly gives either an API or Neve vibe (if you want it), I haven't experimented with it yet... I record direct without it in the circuit, because I'm looking for the cleanest signal possible... no "character". However, since it has a Line In on the front, I can then re-route that "clean" recording through it later with the "Color" if need be... I'll be experimenting with that on my new synth (as soon as that comes). Anyhow... if you aren't having "noise" issues, or if your Preamps now aren't negatively affecting the incoming signal... a new Preamp isn't really going to help all that much.
 
Ujn Hunter said:
I think you're chasing a ghost... but don't let that stop you from GASing for a Neve... haha. I mean... I still have one eye on the new DIYRE Pre73 myself... however the Preamp that I have, actually has a "Color" circuit... that supposedly gives either an API or Neve vibe (if you want it), I haven't experimented with it yet... I record direct without it in the circuit, because I'm looking for the cleanest signal possible... no "character". However, since it has a Line In on the front, I can then re-route that "clean" recording through it later with the "Color" if need be... I'll be experimenting with that on my new synth (as soon as that comes). Anyhow... if you aren't having "noise" issues, or if your Preamps now aren't negatively affecting the incoming signal... a new Preamp isn't really going to help all that much.
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Thanks Hunter, I guess thats why I made that comment. It certainly is starting to feel that way. I'm not sure their will be enough of a difference for me to move forward with it. Thx Cheers.
 
One thing I suppose I could do is purchase the WA-73 and the wA273 with the EQ.
Try them both out to see if I'm travelling up the right road.
My local store has a 30 day money back return policy.
Might be the safer way to go.
 
today I was roaming through years gone by and a ISA One and my Interface comparison tracks and it was not anything.
but for me its not always the sound alone, but the I/O or the preference over a mouse pre. ...and having something that doesn't "fart out" like a interface preamps can, imo. Its all about the gain staging I guess and choice of how one wants to play.

I tired the dual-transformer neve thing and it didn't do anything for me either, sure a person could overdrive the guitar and that was ok if that's what you want but for microphones it seems like all the others within reason. I don't do this for a living so one mans "wow!" might be another dudes "meh.." ...the hype is hard to live up to.

you want gain ok, you want a preamp with I/O great, you want to save money and use plugin anime' versions its a money saving venture. I was messing with the Antelope ZenGo and its Neve , EQ, Comp is really really nice plugs, I doubt I could tell between plugins and hardware. I tire of the plug thing though when tracking. Mixing is ok, but tracking time Im caveman like and just want to record not become a IT tech.

Outboard strips can be really the big bang for the buck,imo.
From Dry Blah Mic sound to push a button and have Gain, Opto comp, EQ, dess, and maybe a noise gate pretty nice and there's that studio sound.

Trying it out yourself is the only thing that finally got me past a lot of the mystery-gear -magic dust. The whole spending cash when plugins can do just fine is another mindbender.
 
CoolCat said:
today I was roaming through years gone by and a ISA One and my Interface comparison tracks and it was not anything.
but for me its not always the sound alone, but the I/O or the preference over a mouse pre. ...and having something that doesn't "fart out" like a interface preamps can, imo. Its all about the gain staging I guess and choice of how one wants to play.

I tired the dual-transformer neve thing and it didn't do anything for me either, sure a person could overdrive the guitar and that was ok if that's what you want but for microphones it seems like all the others within reason. I don't do this for a living so one mans "wow!" might be another dudes "meh.." ...the hype is hard to live up to.

you want gain ok, you want a preamp with I/O great, you want to save money and use plugin anime' versions its a money saving venture. I was messing with the Antelope ZenGo and its Neve , EQ, Comp is really really nice plugs, I doubt I could tell between plugins and hardware. I tire of the plug thing though when tracking. Mixing is ok, but tracking time Im caveman like and just want to record not become a IT tech.

Outboard strips can be really the big bang for the buck,imo.
From Dry Blah Mic sound to push a button and have Gain, Opto comp, EQ, dess, and maybe a noise gate pretty nice and there's that studio sound.

Trying it out yourself is the only thing that finally got me past a lot of the mystery-gear -magic dust. The whole spending cash when plugins can do just fine is another mindbender.
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I definitely agree with a lot of this coolcat. I ordered the WA273 Dual Channel Mic Pre with EQ. This way I get to hear the pre's and the eq's.
I can tell you one thing, if it is anything close to the plugins, its going back. I would have to notice a significant difference in tracks to keep it.
I'll report back after I receive it and get a chance to record with it.
 
Other than its "based on" 1073, its a nice looking unit, Dual channel w EQ should be able to make some sounds.
There are so many 1073 items made. To be honest its amazing how many have made a business off this design.
The whole history of the 1073 NEVE gear is what it is. To me its the dual transformer design. And it works...73 pre> EQ>Comp ...hard to complain.

You seem to be going for sound and that's specific. So your expectations are it brings something obviously better than PlugIns or it goes back.
Curious to what you think, good luck....
I know I slapped on some plugs today on a mic and it was sounding as good as I can get from my hardware. Was it fun clicking with a mouse 345 times ..no. But Cassettes and PortaStudios had their problems too in the old days. Ill take the power of the DAW and editing and SaveAs functions and Rendering with a few clicks vs the old days of piles cassettes or CD and all that crap.

Its strange to have a little black box on my desktop that can do more than the whole pile of other stuff I have.
My thing now is looking into Mic Modelers. I went down the hole. As odd luck has it , the Antelope Solo is on clearance at GC for $199 from $695...so I grabbed one. For HR it might replace 3 or 4 condensers? and whatever....reading its a European built in house by Antelope. It can do XLR mic old school so for $199 new with case not bad, shockmount included too.
 
CoolCat said:
Other than its "based on" 1073, its a nice looking unit, Dual channel w EQ should be able to make some sounds.
There are so many 1073 items made. To be honest its amazing how many have made a business off this design.
The whole history of the 1073 NEVE gear is what it is. To me its the dual transformer design. And it works...73 pre> EQ>Comp ...hard to complain.

You seem to be going for sound and that's specific. So your expectations are it brings something obviously better than PlugIns or it goes back.
Curious to what you think, good luck....
I know I slapped on some plugs today on a mic and it was sounding as good as I can get from my hardware. Was it fun clicking with a mouse 345 times ..no. But Cassettes and PortaStudios had their problems too in the old days. Ill take the power of the DAW and editing and SaveAs functions and Rendering with a few clicks vs the old days of piles cassettes or CD and all that crap.days of tapehe
Its strange to have a little black box on my desktop that can do more than the whole pile of other stuff I have.
My thing now is looking into Mic Modelers. I went down the hole. As odd luck has it , the Antelope Solo is on clearance at GC for $199 from $695...so I grabbed one. For HR it might replace 3 or 4 condensers? and whatever....reading its a European built in house by Antelope. It can do XLR mic old school so for $199 new with case not bad, shockmount included too.
Click to expand...
Thanks Cool Cat. Its going to be interesting to try out and see what I get out of it. I want to do some comparisons with and without the pre-eq.
Yeah I remember the tape and portastudios for sure.

Interesting you speaking about the mic modelers.
I have the Slate Audio with Mic Emulations, The Antelope Audio Edge Mic and emulations, as well as the UAD Townsend L-22 and with the 3 plugins, Sphere, Putnum and Ocean Way Studios.
 
While you wait for your preamps, what's your Mic Modelers review?
 
CoolCat said:
Outboard strips can be really the big bang for the buck,imo.
From Dry Blah Mic sound to push a button and have Gain, Opto comp, EQ, dess, and maybe a noise gate pretty nice and there's that studio sound.
Click to expand...

So, I'd been meaning to get myself a decent Opto Comp (500 Series) and maybe a De-Esser too... but I realized that I had "MixBox" which is a 500 Series-esque plugin... and adding those to my Track after my nice Preamp did pretty much everything I'd want, so I'm probably going to save those Hardware Slots for something else now. :P
 
So I received the Warm Audio WA-273.
I have to say I am pleasantly surprised.
What I was hoping to hear in my head was already translating with some quick vocal tracks.
I'm more of an artist than an engineer. I definitely have to get the gain staging right.
It's only the first day. I want to see how it responds to acoustic and electric guitars as well as direct.
I went to a song I've been working on and didn't really care about the noise factor going on in the background, just wanted to hit record.
The EQ's are much more subtle which is something I really like. It's not you turn the dial and redline your meters.
I used the Warm Audio WA-87 and also a Melodium B-42. When I went back to the UAD Apollo tracks there was a definite difference for me.
Really nice bottom end and roundness to the track. Nothing in the top end stuck out like a sore thumb.
Again the only piece of hardware I have in my studio is the ISA One with the digital card.
I have to say I have been struggling with the ISA in that I always expect something different, and then just end up using the Apollo Twin X direct.
To me the Warm Audio has so far surprised me and may end up selling my ISA One which I really used for my ribbon mic because of the gain.
But the WA273 has tons of gain on tap, I just have to be aware of the noise.
The only thing I thought of is that I would not be able to use it with the Townsend L-22 direct and use the microphone emulations.
I guess I would have to have it set up as an insert to make it work I believe. I'm not that techy guy but will find out how to make that happen.
I have time with this to experiment and although I have nothing Neve to compare it to, only the ISA One, but I have to say I am liking what I am hearing regardless of any scientific shootouts and whats on my paper. I know what is pleasing to my ear. So far so good.
 
Interesting, and noted its test drive new.
I'm not surprised it relieves the need for other gear. Especially if budget goal is to recoup which is what it is.
I always looked at my gear as "rental" like and don't need 64qty preamps..lol

What made the 73 so popular? is probably what your hearing.
Having Dual Channels and EQ is apples and oranges to the ISA One., you're more in channel strips mode with WA273. ..aka a LA610 x 2 or ISA110x2 type thing.

Preamps Only, no EQ, is what's your opinion of the ISA One and 73?
Big, small, medium difference?

Ive sold my ISA One over and bought it back a few times, when one pops up for $250 or something...there's so
many of them its not like your selling some "rare" piece. Its just an awesome piece imo, but its just gear.

EQ-I haven't compared a bunch of EQ's and don't plan too......but your comment on the WA273 and EQ is something extra.
It makes me wonder what's the fuss of all the microphone miniscule subtle differences purpose when you can just add a little or remove little?
EQ is like having 100 mics in 1 mic. It can even make a SM7 sound good...lol
 
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