Tips On Tracking Guitars

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MIKEPELLE

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Hello,

I am in the process of recording a new CD using CuBase. My band is similar in style to Killswitch Engage/Hatebreed etc . .

I am trying to get the guitars to sound as thick as possible similar to the aforementioned bands or say System of a Down guitars on Toxicity CD.

As of now I am recording two tracks of rhythm guitars. One track is a Marshall type sound,more bright and the other is a Mesa Rectifier sound. I panned the rectifier far left and then the marshall I panned left but only half way. I mixed the two together and am pleased with the sound

The second guitar player has done the same thing with the same sounds more or less panned right.

My plan is for me and the other guitar player to do an additional track each using a variation on the Mesa sound for the lead guitar track. By lead guitar I dont mean solos I am referring more to another rhythm styled track that will have some slight differences then the other rhythm tracks mentioned above, for example this track would just hit the chord and let it hold out while the other tracks would be chugging the muted chord behind this open chord.

Is the best way to do this? I know there are no hard fast rules but looking for some advice. In the end I will have six guitar tracks - 3 left and 3 right with 2 doing the sort main rhythm track and one doing the lead rhythm track (panned left and same right).

BTW I am keeping the drives on the amps and DI boxes at like 5 or 6 to avoid these tracks turning into mud - so far results are good.

Just wondering if this plan seems correct - is this how many tracks the pros do? Any tips or advice would be great

Thanks

Mike Pelle
 
You've got the right idea. More guitars with less gain = thick awesomeness. That lead track, I'd try doing it with a different guitar/cab combo than the rhythm and go ahead and double it. Get as different a sound you can from the rhythm without losing focus on the tone you want.

Be aware that with that many tracks of guitar, using certain mics and positionings, certain amp settings that lend themselves well to metal, you're going to have a buttload of fizzy presence and midrange that you're gonna want to experiment with. I usually do a fairly wide cut at 3-4khz on the guitars panned farther out and cut out some low mids on the guitars in the middle.

You said it yourself though, there's no hard fast rule. Experiment. You're on the right track but without hearing what you're doing, there'd be no way to give any real suggestion. This is arrangement stuff that people get wrong all the time though so it's good you're asking. Also, it's better to track all those guitars and use what you need (you may not need them all!) than it is to end up with a wimpy, one dimensional tone because you weren't adventurous enough to track doubles.

Good luck, I hope my frazzled rambling can help with...Anything.
 
Sometimes less is more too.
Try 1 hard left, 1 hard right and then a thickner track that accents the other two in the center. Usually in places you want a lot of crunch or chuga chuga is a good time to add some thickner to the mix but when moving up the fret board and playing things with a lot of notes it can dirty it up.
 
NTK88 said:
Sometimes less is more too.
Try 1 hard left, 1 hard right and then a thickner track that accents the other two in the center. Usually in places you want a lot of crunch or chuga chuga is a good time to add some thickner to the mix but when moving up the fret board and playing things with a lot of notes it can dirty it up.
Click to expand...


This actually works pretty well. I just recorded a band and panned one track hard left one hard right then the third was centered. It definately kept the mud out of the recording and left the guitar player extremely satisfied with his sound. I also sometimes get the whole song recorded then I'll pan anywhere from zero to 100% and listen for where it fits best. Sometimes 100% right or left just doesn't work as good as say 60%, 50% or something like that. No real right or wrongs here, just do it until you're all satisfied.
 
what i find that works well in a generalized way.......is to............

pan guitar 1 to 100% left (rythem)
pan guitar 2 to 100% right (rythem)

if any additonal rythem guitars are used, pan them 50-60% left/right

only pan guitars in the 'center' if its a guitar solo......or lead work. panning a rythem guitar in the center takes up too much frequency space, and youll have alot of trouble making it fit in with bass/vocals/snare drum........
 
Thanks for the advice. Sounds like I am in the right direction and will may be experiment with a few different thisngs.
 
bkkornaker said:
what i find that works well in a generalized way.......is to............

pan guitar 1 to 100% left (rythem)
pan guitar 2 to 100% right (rythem)

if any additonal rythem guitars are used, pan them 50-60% left/right

only pan guitars in the 'center' if its a guitar solo......or lead work. panning a rythem guitar in the center takes up too much frequency space, and youll have alot of trouble making it fit in with bass/vocals/snare drum........
Click to expand...

Exactly which is why a thickener track which accents the music would be center. :cool:
 
I think the key here is trying to get the performances as tight with each other as possible.

More layers can bring a thicker sound, but at the same time can bring a bigger mess if your attack is off considerably with each new pass.

I would personally identify my main distortion track first (the leading role) and slowly bring up each new layer (supporting roles) "underneath" that track to see what kind of tones your getting.
 
bkkornaker said:
what i find that works well in a generalized way.......is to............

pan guitar 1 to 100% left (rythem)
pan guitar 2 to 100% right (rythem)

if any additonal rythem guitars are used, pan them 50-60% left/right

only pan guitars in the 'center' if its a guitar solo......or lead work. panning a rythem guitar in the center takes up too much frequency space, and youll have alot of trouble making it fit in with bass/vocals/snare drum........
Click to expand...


This isn't true. Sorry. And hard panning all one way or another isn't always best either. When giving advice it's best to say something like "in my opinion" and not speak in absolutes. Can center panning muddy things up? Sure but not always. Especially if you actually know how to track and eq the guitars properl. Pulling out the frequencies that fight the others that are center panned and good mic'ing coupled with good playing can allow you to place a track anywhere in a stereofield so long as it works in the mix.
 
agreed........i didnt mean to make it sound so "official"........in music, anything goes.........

i was just meaning " as a generalized way in most music"....this is how its layed out.....

but if you can get that rythem guitar panned in the middle, and it sounds good, by all means go for it! I think it sounds fantastic! but its not worth the trouble for me to do some "major EQing" on that guitar (in the middle), as well as some EQing the other instruments panned in the middle so they all 'gel" together well.....

IMO, its not worth the trouble to have a full frequency instrument panned in the center....a rythem guitar takes alot of frequency space (big chords, barr chords)............and it just seems easier and quicker to place single phrase solos and guitars that dont eat up so much frequency space in the middle.....

but if its worth the trouble to you do do so, ......yeah! placeing a rythem guitar in the center will sure add major thickness to a song!
 
bkkornaker said:
i was just meaning " as a generalized way in most music"....
Click to expand...
I'd have to contest even that, to be honest, bk. Perhaps if by "most music" you actually mean "both kinds of music, heavy metal and heavier metal", then perhaps you might be right. But there is a whole ocean of dozens of other music and mixing styles out there for which that statemet is not really true.

And there are 178 other degrees of panning other than 0, 90L and 90R. Most lead and rhythm guitars (once you get out of the heavier isotopes) are not panned at any one of those three.

G.
 
yes, very true..........its just when i listen to my cd collection (various rock, classic rock, metal, nu-rock, etc) ....ive noticed they all share the same generalized format .......where you hear the rythem guitars panned hard left/right, and when a guitar solo kicks in....it usually panned in the middle.

i tried to make it sound like i was posting in a "generalized way"........but every genre of music is different, and it s not a "hard rule of thumb" of mixing/panning guitars.......

especially when you hear classic rock (like zepplin)....youll hear crazy stuff like the whole drum kit panned it the left, and the guitars/bass on the right!

again, there is no hard rule to panning/mixing......its a creativity process. Do what you think sounds best to achieve that "perfect sound in your head".
 
bkkornaker said:
yes, very true..........its just when i listen to my cd collection (various rock, classic rock, metal, nu-rock, etc) ....ive noticed they all share the same generalized format .......where you hear the rythem guitars panned hard left/right, and when a guitar solo kicks in....it usually panned in the middle.

i tried to make it sound like i was posting in a "generalized way"........but every genre of music is different, and it s not a "hard rule of thumb" of mixing/panning guitars.......

especially when you hear classic rock (like zepplin)....youll hear crazy stuff like the whole drum kit panned it the left, and the guitars/bass on the right!

again, there is no hard rule to panning/mixing......its a creativity process. Do what you think sounds best to achieve that "perfect sound in your head".
Click to expand...

Yea Zeppelin panned stuff all over the place. Listen to stuff from the 60's and some tunes have all instruments on the left and vocals on the right. And you know what? It was cool
 
I'll pan a track in the center all the time. I will usually have this track pretty quiet comparatively, and roll out a lot of lows and low mid stuff so it doesn't get in the way of the bass too much.
 
Here is my advice with the guitars:

get a guitar splitter. Go into two or three amps. Have one be the meaty heavy gain, one be the midrangey overdrive guy, and then on glassy and clean.

Put these mic'd amps on three faders and you'll find there will be a magic balance where you get all the chunk and fizz from the heavy, all the punch and guts from the overdrive amp, and the clarity and tonality of the clean. I do this a lot with a Dual Rec, a JCM 800, and a Fender Twin.

example:

www.yellowmatterrecords.com/slate/AmbrosiaNewMix.wav
 
There's one important thing everyone is leaving out. Check your tracks in mono. There's all kinds of things you will discover when you do this worst of which can be your wall of guitars completely disappearing. I just finished a metal album with the best guitar tracks I've ever done. They were all eq'd/compressed in mono FIRST. Then panning. Then checked in mono again.
 
SORRY BUT THIS BOARD IS FUCKED UP AND WONT LET ME MAKE NEW THREADS SO I AM GOING TO HIGH JACK THIS THREAD I APOLOGIZE :)

what are your best techniques on getting a really CLEAN guitar sound, obviously the amp matters a ton and the tone and the guitar and the player, and what color thong im wearing :o

my buddy just picked up a deluxe reverb... its a tube amp for those who dont know. I want to supply him with the cleanest recording i can.

I want that beuatiful tube amp sound to come out on recording, how should i go about doing so.

some mics i own

dynamics:

57's
e609

SCDs:

Rode nt5
Oktava mc012
behringer ECM8000

LCDs:

AT4050
MXL shitties

and so on
 
bkkornaker said:
what i find that works well in a generalized way.......is to............

pan guitar 1 to 100% left (rythem)
pan guitar 2 to 100% right (rythem)

if any additonal rythem guitars are used, pan them 50-60% left/right

only pan guitars in the 'center' if its a guitar solo......or lead work. panning a rythem guitar in the center takes up too much frequency space, and youll have alot of trouble making it fit in with bass/vocals/snare drum........
Click to expand...

In terms of what you said about lead work, what's your opinion for panning a solo slightly but equally on left and right if the panning you use for rhythm guitar is followed? For instance, recording a rock solo 30% left 30% right while rhythm is 100% left 100% right.
 
YellowMatter said:
Here is my advice with the guitars:

get a guitar splitter. Go into two or three amps. Have one be the meaty heavy gain, one be the midrangey overdrive guy, and then on glassy and clean.

Put these mic'd amps on three faders and you'll find there will be a magic balance where you get all the chunk and fizz from the heavy, all the punch and guts from the overdrive amp, and the clarity and tonality of the clean. I do this a lot with a Dual Rec, a JCM 800, and a Fender Twin.

example:

www.yellowmatterrecords.com/slate/AmbrosiaNewMix.wav
Click to expand...

In all fairness, most people couldn't afford a dual rectifier, and JCM 800 and a Fender twin....if I could, I'd jump all over it LOL. Nice mix btw, you need to give me some tips! :D
 
BillC15 said:
In terms of what you said about lead work, what's your opinion for panning a solo slightly but equally on left and right if the panning you use for rhythm guitar is followed? For instance, recording a rock solo 30% left 30% right while rhythm is 100% left 100% right.
Click to expand...

you can.....but that would mean double-take a solo (recorded twice) and then panning it one left 30% and the other right 30%. Its hard to record and capture a solo dead on, in 2 takes.......which is why most people just record a single take for a guitar solo....

but you can do that. It will sound BIG..........but your guitar player will hate you for it, trying to record the guitar solo twice and playing it exactly the same way is very hard to do.......

in panning.....there is no right or wrong way to do things.......just a more creative approach on how you do it will separate your mixes with the rest.
 
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