Tips for bringing out the bass drum using EQ

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jumptactic

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Hiya guys,
This week I've been recording with my band in my spare room, finally got the tracks down now, it's come to mixing and eq. I haven't been doing this for too long at all (been playing for years but only recently got a little home studio together) and as a drummer, I am (obviously) taking a lot of time to get the right drum sound!

When i recorded the drums, I thought I had a pretty good mix of everything (I'm using an Alesis 8-channel mixer going into Cubase through USB, so the drums are mixed down into one track). Now everything is on top of it, i feel the bass drum is too quiet and a little poorly defined. I'm therefore looking for any helpful tips on bringing the bass drum out of the mix! I'm looking for a nice chunky clicky sound, with plenty of seperation from the snare if possible.

What frequencys do people usually bring up/down on a track to do such a thing?

Cheers for your help guys,
Michael
 
boost 100 HZ. Or, if you want even more bass, boost 60 HZ, but 60 HZ doesn't turn up too well on some speakers


roll of everything from 300-700 HZ to get rid of a boxy sound

boost 1000 HZ to add attack


If you want the snare and bass not to moosh together, just download an audio analyzer plugin like the Voxengo Span[ it's free any works good], see what frequencies the bass drum is pushing, and then cut those frequencies from the snare's eq in small, 1 and 2 db cuts.
 
Boost 60-80hz
Wide cut around 250
Narrow boost 2-3k

But don't try to go to the extreme unless you just have a bad sound to begin with.

Don't forget that the bass drum and bass guitar need space to live. Boosting the low end on both at the same place can mess everything up.
 
I believe boosting around 80hz might bring out your kick a bit more, or atleast give it more presense. Cutting around 250hz might eliminate the confliction with the snare and other instruments. Below 80hz will probably just add mud to the mix. For more click, you'd want to put your mic closer to the center of the front head, but if you've already got everything recorded, boosting at 2.5k might work.

If you want to then seperate the kick and snare some more, you should take out a couple decibels at 80hz from the snare. The snare's fundamental lows will reside around 250hz, so boost that if you need more punch to it. It's highs are best exagerated around 5k, so you can cut this area on the kick and then boost on the snare for more seperation.

Again, I'd like to emphasize that these are just general guidelines. Your particular source tracks and musical style will ultimately affect what kind of methods you should use for seperation and presence, as far EQ goes.

-RW


EDIT: Yeah, fldrummer's got it (I started writing my post before he submitted his :p)
 
jumptactic said:
When i recorded the drums, I thought I had a pretty good mix of everything (I'm using an Alesis 8-channel mixer going into Cubase through USB, so the drums are mixed down into one track). Now everything is on top of it, i feel the bass drum is too quiet and a little poorly defined.
Click to expand...
There you have it, man. The difference between "thinking" you have a good mix and "knowing" that you have a good mix of drums are two different things and possibly comes down to having to do it a few times on your own to learn for yourself what works or doesn't work. Mixing all your drum tracks down to one track? :eek: That's scary. You didn't left yourself any area to work within in an attempt to deal with an 'after the fact recorded' individual drum element.

Each mic you use to record a drum kit should be recorded to seperate tracks and not premixed and recorded to :eek: a single track, unless you absolutely know that you will be satisfied with the outcome.

Rethink your approach. ;)
 
thankyou for your help everyone, much appreciated!

8tothebar, i know this is anything but ideal, but until i can afford a firewire mixer this will have to do ;)
 
assuming you can send a stereo signal from your mixer to your pc i'd recommend keeping your drums mono. pan overhead hard left and kick/snare (find an acceptable balance) hard right and then split it to two mono tracks (or import it as such) on your computer... at least you should be able to have control over your overheads vs. kick/snare sound this way.

just my 2p.
 
I remember I ended copying the whole kick track to another track, and then pretty much taking everything from 2khz up to 10khz up about 6dB and then mixed that track in to get a good "click"...I was ghetto at certain points in my life :)
 
I've been given a few projects to mix down where the drums are already bounced to a stereo track. I usualy bring in the stereo wave 3 times, on one I get the overheads and toms EQ;d the way I want, on the secong I'll focus on the snare and the third I'll work on the kick then blend all three back together on the one bus with some compression to gel it all together again.

I usualy look to get the kick beater snap in the snare track and put a lo pass filyer on the wav I'm using for kick to get just the bottom end rounded out.

Get your wav files into a spectrum analizer and see where the kick and the bass guitar are peaking. I usualy look to get the kick peaking at around 60 - 80 Hz and the bass arounf 100 - 120Hz. It's all about breathing space. Hope this helps. Good luck with it man.
 
LemonTree said:
I usualy look to get the kick beater snap in the snare track and put a lo pass filyer on the wav I'm using for kick to get just the bottom end rounded out.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I use whatever leaks into my snare mic as part of the sound, as opposed to trying to illiminate it or gate it. I wasn't sure if this was done by normal people, too. Nice to know someone who knows what they're doing does this too. I find that the little bit of high hat and click from the kik in the snare mic doesn't hurt the sound at all, and even makes the kit sound a little more like a unit.
 
The "Rule of Fours" is fairly common on kick drum: 400Hz and 4kHz.

The exact frequency depends upon the size and tuning of the kick, but often a bit of a boost around 4kHz (+/- a couple hundred Hz) will bring out the snap of the beater skin. And some gentle cuts around 400Hz (+/-) to scoop out some of the overall mud.

As with all suggestions like this, YMMV. But it's a good go-to technique to try.

G.
 
RAMI said:
Interesting. I use whatever leaks into my snare mic as part of the sound, as opposed to trying to illiminate it or gate it. I wasn't sure if this was done by normal people, too. Nice to know someone who knows what they're doing does this too. I find that the little bit of high hat and click from the kik in the snare mic doesn't hurt the sound at all, and even makes the kit sound a little more like a unit.
Click to expand...


"normal people".... I love that, thanks xxx :D
 
also..talkin about gates....

I had a valley people Gatex 4 gates in a 1U box I used to overuse a lot till someone (maybe Finster) told me way back I was getting weird results with in PMC#3 OR #4...BLEED IS YOUR FRIEND
 
Personally for me, I found a good kick in the mix was a combination of things.


I always find it best to go back to the root of the issue:


Tunning-

The most important step. If you're drum is not tunned properly, then what's recorded won't sound proper.

I usually end up tunning the kick drum looser than what the drummer is used to. It helps bring out body by allowing the heads to resonate more freely. I usually end up avoiding felt wrapped beaters in rock music. They lack enough high end to really punch through a mix. I'd go with wood or hard plastic materials. Also it's important that the head fall flat with the head, not at an angle. That makes a tremendous difference with that punch you're looking for.

For added body, I have a hollowed out 22inch kick drum that I place in front of the exsisting kick drum to create an extended kick.

In terms of heads, I usually go for the regular clear coated kind. I don't really like the sound of those "punch tailored" heads out there, so I just go with a regular grade of clear head.

Tracking

First, I like boom rooms with high vaulted ceilings. Small rooms tend to have problems with comb filtering and disipation of sound. Especially with an enormusly loud instrument like a drumset.

So think about it, if you're room is canceling out all your low frequencies, and you're recording a thin and brittle kick drum, that won't be very good for mixing. Cool?

A big factor is mic selection. With the Beta 91 and Beta 52 combination, I've never gone wrong. Two that I'm very happy to have in my collection. Having Beta 91 in the furthest end opposite the beater inside the kick and the Beta 52 at the farthest end of the extended kick drum.

You can adjust the levels of both until you've got just the right blend. I always end up having them at around the same level.

You can wrap that with a thick blanket for isolation (useful for mixing). I usually record them to one track, already mixed.

With all this, I very rarely have to do any more EQing during mixing. Consistent results...all that good jazz.

If you like the click sound, you can boost the highs on the 91. The strength with this is in the tailoring. Both the 52 and 91 are tailored to "play together". Good on low end stuff.

I recently did up a conga with a sm57 on top and a 91 on the floor for the sound hole. All I had to do was get a good blend and the rest was history. No EQ needed.
 
LeeRosario said:
Personally for me, I found a good kick in the mix was a combination of things.


I always find it best to go back to the root of the issue:


Tunning-

The most important step. If you're drum is not tunned properly, then what's recorded won't sound proper.

I usually end up tunning the kick drum looser than what the drummer is used to. It helps bring out body by allowing the heads to resonate more freely. I usually end up avoiding felt wrapped beaters in rock music. They lack enough high end to really punch through a mix. I'd go with wood or hard plastic materials. Also it's important that the head fall flat with the head, not at an angle. That makes a tremendous difference with that punch you're looking for.

For added body, I have a hollowed out 22inch kick drum that I place in front of the exsisting kick drum to create an extended kick.

In terms of heads, I usually go for the regular clear coated kind. I don't really like the sound of those "punch tailored" heads out there, so I just go with a regular grade of clear head.

Tracking

First, I like boom rooms with high vaulted ceilings. Small rooms tend to have problems with comb filtering and disipation of sound. Especially with an enormusly loud instrument like a drumset.

So think about it, if you're room is canceling out all your low frequencies, and you're recording a thin and brittle kick drum, that won't be very good for mixing. Cool?

A big factor is mic selection. With the Beta 91 and Beta 52 combination, I've never gone wrong. Two that I'm very happy to have in my collection. Having Beta 91 in the furthest end opposite the beater inside the kick and the Beta 52 at the farthest end of the extended kick drum.

You can adjust the levels of both until you've got just the right blend. I always end up having them at around the same level.

You can wrap that with a thick blanket for isolation (useful for mixing). I usually record them to one track, already mixed.

With all this, I very rarely have to do any more EQing during mixing. Consistent results...all that good jazz.

If you like the click sound, you can boost the highs on the 91. The strength with this is in the tailoring. Both the 52 and 91 are tailored to "play together". Good on low end stuff.

I recently did up a conga with a sm57 on top and a 91 on the floor for the sound hole. All I had to do was get a good blend and the rest was history. No EQ needed.
Click to expand...

Lee... I'm cock eyed with the drink but I have to say... you talk a load of PISH at times. Get a fuckin grip...... my bird could mix better than you on a one track ya fuckin idiot :D Seriously though......

bet you'd still have the same smile with a 57 up your arse...or an 81
 
Huh? What? Huh? Say what?

I am very, very new to mixing. I have all my tracks recorded and I always read the forums with people saying cut 100 this and boost 50 this and if the bass is using this frequency then remove that frequency from the guitar na d on and on and on.

How in the world do I know what frequency the bass is using, the guitar is using, the drums are using? Is there a book or web site that will give me some good info that I can use without having to be a recording engineer?

Thank you for your time...


Peter
 
Bloodsoaked said:
How in the world do I know what frequency the bass is using, the guitar is using, the drums are using? Is there a book or web site that will give me some good info that I can use without having to be a recording engineer?
Click to expand...
Short answer is, no there are no books that can tell you how to be a recording engineer without telling you how to be a recording engineer. :D

Seriously, Pete, all you need to do is learn what the different frequencies sound like, at least in general terms. You can do this to decent effect very quickly. You may never be able to tell the difference between 130Hz and 150Hz right off the bat, but that's OK, you don't need to.

There are two exercises I would recommend for you. Spend a half hour or so a night for a week on each one of them and you'll have come a long, long way. All you need to know to do these exercises is how to operate the knobs of a parametric equalizer and a graphic equalizer. If you need to learn those first, that info you *can* get out of any recording for rookies book.

But if you know the basics of how these two types of devices/plugins work, then you can go ahead.

First, start with the graphic EQ (preferably a 15 band, but you can start with anything). Load your favorite song into your favorite audio editing software and play it. As it's playing, start ing at the left (bass) start sliding one EQ band at a time up and down. Take your time do it slowly, and listen to how that frequency band affects each instrument and vocal sound. Remember, "hmmm, when I move this EQ band up, it adds this distinctive tone or sound, and when I move it down, it takes this sound away. Take a half hour or an hour a night for a week, concentrating on memorizing the "sond" of each frequency band. Perhaps if you have a friend or family member that can help you out,they can quizz you at the end of the week. Give them control of the EQ where you cannt see what they are doing. Then have them move a slider at a time and have you listen and buess which control they are moving and in which direction (extra credit would be by how much they are moving it. Once you have it down with one song, then move to other songs and you should catch on real quick.

The second exercise is very similar to the first one, but you use the frequency control on one band of a parametric EQ to sweep through the forquencies slowly with the gain turned up or down and in the same way as above, listen to how the sound of the different parts of the music is affected at the different frequencies.

To help give you a little bit of a head start, here is a chart of some word descriptions of some of the key "areas" of the audio frequency spectrum and what they typically relate to, but there is NO SUBSTITUTE for hearing for yourself what 400Hz or 8kHz, etc, actually SOUNDS like:

16Hz - 60 Hz
SUB BASS Sense of power.
Felt more than heard. Too much is muddy.

60Hz - 250Hz
BASS Fundamental notes of rhythm section.
Makes music fat or thin. Too much is boomy.

250Hz - 2kHz
LOW MIDS Low-order harmonics of most instruments. Too much 500-1K is honking. Too much 1K-2K is tinny.

2kHz - 4kHz
HIGH MIDS Vocal recognition, hard consonants, percussive attack. Too much = listener fatigue.

4kHz - 6kHz
PRESENCE Clarity & definition. Boost to bring forward in mix.

6kHz - 16kHz
BRILLIANCE Brightness/Crispness. Too much is brittle or

G.
 
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