Theft of Services!

[Fusion2]

humm, all he has to say is he wasn't satisfied with your work for the amount you want and your out.

i don't know of your studio or links you posted to it, if your a part time jd then he'll will surely win in court...

humm, 1400 bucks? sounds kinda stiff to me... and with 40% off???

need more info on what you did for the man instead of just cussing him...

 

[PlayLoud]

mam,

1) If I were you I would go see a lawyer.

2) Adding the test tone is a great idea.

3) I would give a call to the newspaper that ran the story and tell them your experience with this guy. They would just eat this up.

PlayLoud

PS: For the record, I'm a Christian and sad to say, it's guys like these that "give us a bad name" and it pisses me off.

 

[mam]

STIFF?

You think $1,400 is kinda stiff? What the hell do you do ... work outta your bedroom for free twinkies & video games? Hmmm, 72 hours of recording/mixing time, not to mention playing most of the bass & guitar parts that were needed. cases upon cases of bottled water, coffee, sandwiches, purchasing extra headphones for a choir of 16, production advice, etc. KINDA STIFF? If he don't like it & doesn't feel it's worth all that money (?), why is it released?
To the last poster:
I've contacted the paper that did a story on him & they won't write my side until legal action is indeed started. I'm just waiting to get my hands on a released cd first. Yeah, unfortunately it does give the "christian community" a bad name. I've gone through that stigma before. I'm former automotive technician. Once someone finds out you repair cars ... you must be a crook!

 

[dafduc]

I was real surprised when Banjo Mart wouldn't take my church's check (without a hold) a few years back - they said they have nothing but trouble with churches. I had no idea. Bought with my plastic and had the church reimburse me, instead.

Daf

 

[Mr. Moon]

Sorry to hear about the scam....

As far as a test tone or a voice stating that this is a demo copy, etc., I would be sure to bury it within the song and have it replace only one of the tracks for a period of time while the rest of the tracks remain as they were, rather than just inserting the tone, voice, etc. in the tune and having the song pick up where it left off before the tone/voice was inserted. In other words, have the tone/voice replace only the bass or vocal track every 30 seconds or so, while the remainder of the tracks retain their status and the song keeps playing as normal.

Actually, it would be even better to switch the track the tone/voice is replacing from bass to vocals, to guitar, etc. and so on, so they cannot just replace that single track, or edit out the tone/voice and use the tune for anything but demo purposes.

It's hard to explain, but makes sense if you think about it.

Hope this helps you. ...If nothing else, it will help me deal with future clients too.

Thanks!

-Mr. Moon

 

[mam]

Cool Idea

I like your suggestion Mr. Moon. Sounds like a bit of work, but worth it. I'm thinking I'll work on that today
Thanks again!

 

[Son of Mixerman]

Were there any written contracts involved? If not...learn to use them. Contracts are very intimidating to potential scammers. And they look beautiful in court. File suit, recontact the media and try not to look like a whiner. I really dislike these situations. Sorry it happened to you.

SoMm

 

[Mr. Moon]

Re: Cool Idea

I like your suggestion Mr. Moon. Sounds like a bit of work, but worth it. I'm thinking I'll work on that today
Thanks again!

Actually, it would be pretty easy. Create a backup copy of the master project and be sure to use that one, rather than the original project file! Next, make a 10 sec (or however long you want it to be) tone/voice track. Then, just cut and paste the tone/voice clip throughout the backup copy's different tracks in 30 second intervals, so that none of the tracks ever have the tone/voice playing at the same time, and that there's enough unmodified song remaining to give the client a good idea of what the final product is going to be ...as soon as they pay you, that is!

In Sonar, you can just copy/paste this tone/voice clip on top of existing tracks and select "blend" or "replace" when you paste it into the track. Then, just create a new final-demo wav file for the client. ...Very easy!

I got the idea from an episode of Star Trek (New Generation), where they had to introduce some frequency modulation thing into their shields to keep the Borg (bad guys) from breaking through their shields. Geeky, but cool, show...

Anywho, Good luck!

-Mr. Moon

 

[mam]

Yup! Signed contracts AND signed time sheets for EVERY session!
LOVED Next Generation. The Borg were the ultimate bad guys.

 

[mam]

??

"If your a part time jd ..." from Fusion2

Anybody wanna fill me in as to what a part time jd is?

 

[whattaguy]

jd = juris doctor = lawyer

 

[shredfit]

Pasters and Christain Orginizations seem to be in the LLP (Least Likely to Pay) category most of the time. I'd rather trust a kid with a paper route that wanted to record and make small payments.

I once sold a piano for a Church and even had it moved, with the understanding that they would buy some equipment from (me) at the music store I worked at... Therefore, they would not need to pay the music store commission for the sale I made...

Not only did they NOT buy from me, they wanted me to come down and wire their NEW gear for them and tell them the best way to hook it up... Sheesh!

Shred

 

[whattaguy]

Mam,

I've been following this thread for quite some time, and am appalled by the way this "pastor" sets some kind of standard for Christianity. Some pastors (thankfully not all) think that the world owes them something and, therefore, goes about and does stupid things like what happened to you. I am currently a youth pastor who values relationships and integrity (though I fall so short in both categories), and knows that everything that a religious guy does is under a microscope and in the spotlights. Back in college, I was the music guy and developed a great relationship with a local sound engineer. It got to the point where he would just give me equipment and say, "just pay me later." The church would pay him within a week. I am deeply sorry that this had to happen to you. I hope all things work out.

 

[Take Two]

If anything, this "pastor" has shown the presence of sin in the world, and the need for salvation from that sin.

Never assume that a person has integrity based merely on his title or position. Be cautious.

Let us know how this finally pans out.

 

[ed2brute]

Yup! Signed contracts AND signed time sheets for EVERY session!
LOVED Next Generation. The Borg were the ultimate bad guys.

Sounds like you've got him. Retain a lawyer, he/she will help you proceed. Lawyers can be very persuasive and you might not have to go to court.

 

[coloradojay]

I'm sorry to hear about this crappy situation, Mam. It sounds like you've got the documentation and plan of attack to seek your overdue payment.

I like the idea of the threat of the flyer thing, even if it's just a bluff it might be enough to make the pain of not paying you worse than the cost of honoring his end of the deal. Definitly you could get yourself into a worse situation if you really did that, but a little strong-arming can go a long way.

As for the test-tone thing, I've seen a technique that I like better. Just chop little chunks out of each song so that time skips a few beats in a couple of spots. It would make it a major pain in the ass to corrent if someone wanted to rip off the reference copy. This way people who hear your test mixes get the full quality picture, with the only annoyance being some missing chunks. Just make sure that you omit enough to make it more trouble to reverse-engineer than it's worth to pay for the final job in the first place; like do it in a unique and necessary part that can't be pasted over and fixed. Just a thought.

Good luck to you.

 

[mam]

Thanks Everybody!

Thanks to all of you for your support & suggestions. I'm in the process of trying to obtain a copy of the "released" cd. I've had various non-related people call the number that was published in the article, to order a copy. So far no one has been called back.
I'll be sure to post what's been going on as things develop. As I had stated before, this is a shame cause this guy is REALLY talented. We're talking GREAT black gospel!
Until the next episode .............

 

[MaxB]

Hey mam i think the test tone it's a great idea, i think at it the last time I was deceived (june 2003 ... I will put my hands on keyboards/desk only if paid in advance

 

[MaxB]

Listen here all you people:

do not work (never, never and never) for pastors/religious related people and family members!!! They got short arms

 

[zekthedeadcow]

I work a lot in the christian indie scene and there is a lot of this. The tone isn't something that I've done...but I've never had to have it leave my (humble) studio before they paid.. or I agreed to do free work to test out new equipment and junk... (hey I'm new at this)

It seems to be a "god will provide" mentality... so I must be god then...as I'm providing...

IMO $1400 is cheap for anything more than a week or minimal effort... that might just cover tracking if your good and only take a day a song with the "average" project studio

I would just hook up a DXi with the most annoyting sound I could find and at random intervals play the synth and have it pan back and forth or just give them one trackof 20 second clips of each song ...of course you should have your monitros translate to other systems deciently so you can just skip the step and "maybe" offer a few hour remix session two weeks later... and include it in the fee.