The Thunder Moon

[mjbphotos]

The Thunder Moon updated 11-10-14

This one' s little more electric than my usual. Retracked one rhythm guitar part on Friday, and recorded 7 lead variations before going back to the 2nd one I'd recorded a week before.

**New mix posted below** 11-12-14

 

[Bubba po]

The song has some nice chord changes, but it's the mix you're asking about, isn't it? I feel the whole mix is a little over-dense and the levels of the various instruments are altering, not in a dynamic way individually, but "pumping" all the way through the song, as if they're trying to shoulder each other out of the way. Have you squashed the mix quite heavily on the master output? I would take off the master compressor and fiddle about with lighter compression on the individual tracks until you get everything sounding balanced and dynamic, then place a lighter compression on the master bus.

 

[NotThatBright]

I like the riff you have playing throughout. Good song. I agree with Bubba's critique of the mix... seems a little "packed", so to speak.

 

[mjbphotos]

Theres no compression on anything - no track or master compression. I'll have to listen to the s/c version - maybe it was their MP3 conversion.
I've never added track compression on any electric guitar tracks before, as I felt it always killed the dynamics.

 

[Bubba po]

Theres no compression on anything - no track or master compression. I'll have to listen to the s/c version - maybe it was their MP3 conversion.
I've never added track compression on any electric guitar tracks before, as I felt it always killed the dynamics.

Weird. The effect is definitely there, a kind of coming-and-going of the levels depending on which instrument is dominating. It's as if stuff is ducking out of the way.

 

[mjbphotos]

Weird. The effect is definitely there, a kind of coming-and-going of the levels depending on which instrument is dominating. It's as if stuff is ducking out of the way.

Thanks for checking it out and letting me know, definitely something weird happening - I did no ducking of the 2 rhythm guitars at all (each is panned at about 60%), just usual automation to bring their volumes down a little during the verses. Same thing on the organ volume, just automation.

 

[TripleM]

I like the little riff - how it keeps playing thru the verses. Some nice sounding harmonies. I liked the bass sound - very clear - no hint of mud.

A couple of things about some performances. The guitar riff was nailed. They rhythm guitar part needed more balls. Ditto for the lead vocal. The singer sounded like he was trying to get through the take without screwing up. The rhythm guitarist seemed bored.

There was a lead guitar part near the end. it was a little thin and quiet.

If it were me I'd back off the reverb. But that's a personal taste thing.

 

[Mr Clean]

I really like the tune but I felt that the drums and guitars seemed too distant in comparison with the vocal. I like clear vocals on top of a mix but I think these are "too on top", if you know what I mean. They drown the backing in places and it's possibly them that are causing the "ducking effect".

There's a funky timing thing in the chorus around 1:30 for a few seconds and again at 3:09. Something in there doesn't feel right, a tom or a bass note. I can't put my finger on it.

 

[mjbphotos]

Thanks for comments, don't know what happened to this when I uploaded it, but I could hear the compression thing happening too. Going to tweak the mix a little and get it back up in the next couple of days The vocal was not as 'on top' on the instruments - and I just verified that something screwed up when rendering/uploading!

 

[mjbphotos]

Tweaked - I had automated the vocal group to edit out the between-phrase noise, and the volume must have screwed up a little overall, but still have no idea what happened in the S/C upload

New mix submitted (also linked in first post- old mix is history!):

Mr Clean - think it might have been some weak-ass snare hits at those points? I boosted them up (maybe too much).

TripleM - I'd fire the rhythm guitarist and singer, but .... I don't pay myself enough to let myself go. If you're referring to the guitar line (intro, verses, outro), I really had to control myself and get the timing right on both takes of that - there are 2 rhythm guitar parts paged 60% L&R. Trying to keep the vocal tone in control - my throat has developed a buzzy rasp when I belt things out. Probably onset of throat cancer or nodules or something. I took a touch of reverb off the lead guitar part at the end, if it sounded weak, it was the s/c compression taming it too much (I think).

 

[Mr Clean]

Yeah, what ever you did fixed the ducking and diving effect and the tidy up around the times I mentioned sound much smoother now.

 

[mjbphotos]

Yeah, what ever you did fixed the ducking and diving effect and the tidy up around the times I mentioned sound much smoother now.

Appreciate the extra ears on it! I still hate S/C's compression when it changes to its own MP3 format, though - it definitely DOES change things - I notice it more in electric songs than acoustic.

 

[Schwarzenyaeger]

I thought that it was a swollen (?) /muddy during the choruses. The guitars are rather undefined at that point and even overpower the vocal at around 1:20 when they're trying to come out in full force with the backing vocals.
Is the drum going a bit out of time around 3:10? It sounds like some of the hits are going all over the place to me.
You should try and add some nice vibrato at the end of the high notes in the guitar solo. That's what gets the ladies.

Good performances all around though.

 

[mjbphotos]

I thought that it was a swollen (?) /muddy during the choruses. The guitars are rather undefined at that point and even overpower the vocal at around 1:20 when they're trying to come out in full force with the backing vocals.
Is the drum going a bit out of time around 3:10? It sounds like some of the hits are going all over the place to me.
You should try and add some nice vibrato at the end of the high notes in the guitar solo. That's what gets the ladies.

Good performances all around though.

Thanks, will work on the chorus mix a little more - I wanted to bring up the volume some, and automated the guitar EQ to cut some mud out during the choruses, but maybe not enough. Could be bad timing on the drums at 3:10 - that was the problem area That Mr Clean found, and the snare hits were f*cked up. I think I can cut the worst one out. Appreciate the comments!

 

[Mickster]

I think the new version is better..........and I like the song.........but........in my view.......the right side guitar part is either too bright or the left side guitar part is too low / dull. It also seems as if you worked hard to bury your vocals and keep them a tad muddy. I can hear this song with the vocal and the harmonies brightened up. That would keep the guitar riffs.....as cool as they are......from dominating as much as they do. Just my 2 cents and thanks for letting me listen.

 

[mjbphotos]

I think the new version is better..........and I like the song.........but........in my view.......the right side guitar part is either too bright or the left side guitar part is too low / dull. It also seems as if you worked hard to bury your vocals and keep them a tad muddy. I can hear this song with the vocal and the harmonies brightened up. That would keep the guitar riffs.....as cool as they are......from dominating as much as they do. Just my 2 cents and thanks for letting me listen.

No, thank you for listening! I didn't do any EQ or compression on the vocals, but did add a tube plugin to the lead vocal. A touch of bightness to the vocals might sound good, if I can find the right range.

 

[Bubba po]

I left this a few days to give you time to fix things! I think it's likely that the automated guitar volume changes were the culprit in what I was hearing. The voice actually meshes with the guitars rather well now, whereas before the volume drops were leaving your voice a bit "high and dry". There is some muddiness in the choruses, though. I'm not sure how to sort that out, to be honest, other than a general slight pulling out of the low mid frequencies on everything a tiny bit at a time until it sounds clearer. On the whole, though, it's a hundred times better.

Oh, I noticed the snare's changed to a little short "pock", whereas something slightly longer and a little louder might work better. Just my opinion.

 

[mjbphotos]

The fricking Soundcloud compression still mucks this one up - as as I uploaded it I was 'WTF?!'. Maybe I'll throw the WAV on bandcamp.

Bubba - the only change I made to the snare was to some the way off-beat hits.

 

[robgreen]

The fricking Soundcloud compression still mucks this one up - as as I uploaded it I was 'WTF?!'. Maybe I'll throw the WAV on bandcamp.

Bubba - the only change I made to the snare was to some the way off-beat hits.

I read something a while back from one of the the people at soundcloud recommending that you upload as high a quality file as you can. Even though it's converted to something like 128kbps in the upload, a transcoded wav file will be less degraded than a transcoded lower bitrate mp3.

I liked the melody and the vocals suit the style - it sounds kind of proggy to me. The main riff is cool.

The drum fills sounded a bit out of time with the rest of the mix in places.

In terms of the mix, the guitars and drums sound kind of small and maybe slightly boxy compared with the vocals to my ears though. The (possibly crucial) caveat is that my listening environment is not currently much cop mind, so if you don't hear that at all, then I wouldn't worry

 

[mjbphotos]

I read something a while back from one of the the people at soundcloud recommending that you upload as high a quality file as you can. Even though it's converted to something like 128kbps in the upload, a transcoded wav file will be less degraded than a transcoded lower bitrate mp3.

Definitely - I only upload WAV files to SC - if you upload MP3s, then its basically going through 2 compression processes. Thanks for listening. I think you're probably hearing a result of that SC compression inthe guitars/drums vs vocals, as it definitely changes th overall sound.
Wondering if you upload a less-loud track to SC it messes with it less? This one I had limited up to 0.3dB with the Kjerhaus (spelling?) limiter on the master track.