The Peaceful Political Roundtable

Sky Blue Lou said:
Robert Reich eh? Anyway I call bullshit on his rosy view of the current economy.
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I don't think he was attempting to make it "rosy". I looked into it and the data points are legit. He's not a fool - he's an economist. It's fine by me if you disagree - but that data is true nonetheless. It doesn't suddenly become untrue just because you disagree.
 
PorterhouseMusic said:
I don't disagree. It's strikes me as a transparent move. I assume if you or I were in his shoes you might see the writing on the wall and start trying things in desperation. He's in trouble. It's a reason, not an excuse.
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Still though it brings up a point. The SPR should be set up OUTSIDE of presidential manipulation. I'm not sure who should have the say so but definitely not prexy.
 
PorterhouseMusic said:
It's fine by me if you disagree - but that data is true nonetheless. It doesn't suddenly become untrue just because you disagree.
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No. Facts may be legit but also leave out important data. Reich was a Clinton revolving door Treasury/Banker opportunist. I don't trust these guys as a matter of principle.
 
Sky Blue Lou said:
No. Facts may be legit but also leave out important data. Reich was a Clinton revolving door Treasury/Banker opportunist. I don't trust these guys as a matter of principle.
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Dude... I'm trying here. I'm trying to bring some reason and balance to the conversation. Like Paul Krugman... Reich is a liberal economist. They're both smart people. They're not always wrong and they're not always right. They are not evil and they do not wish you harm. Their points a view are as legitimate in the field of ideas as anyone else's.

Under Clinton - the country was in the black. In fact, unless I misunderstand - the economy has generally, on average, fared better under democrat presidents as opposed to republican presidents. I am well aware that there is much more to the puzzle than who is in the white house - relative to the US economy, debt, and deficit. But I'm pretty sure that's true.
 
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PorterhouseMusic said:
Dude... I'm trying here. I'm trying to bring some reason and balance to the conversation. Like Paul Krugman... Reich is a liberal economist. They're both smart people. They're not always wrong and they're not always right. They are not evil and they do not wish you harm. Their points a view are as legitimate in the field of ideas as anyone else's.
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You're fine - I just disagree. I do not believe Reich or Krugman have you or I's best interests at heart.
 
60's guy said:
Hate to break it to you, but it's the Republicans and Democrats alike who are complicit in lowering the living standards of middle class Americans. It's a combined effort.
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Agreed, but there’s more to it I think. After WWII, the US was the only game in town for manufacturing. Europe was bombed and rebuilding. We experienced a major boom and held on to that until the world caught up. I don’t think there’s a Republican or Democratic conspiracy to screw the middle class. We either had to be isolationist or globalist. Companies wanted to sell their goods overseas and then take advantage of cheap labor overseas. Now we are kneecapped as the living standard of the rest of the world catches up to where we’ve been for a long time. That is free market capitalism at work, and without intervention it can only create more haves and have-nots at the expense of the have-somes. The more I read about late-stage capitalism, the more I believe that’s where we’re heading, and why my personal politics have been shifting left.
 
leddy said:
Agreed, but there’s more to it I think. After WWII, the US was the only game in town for manufacturing. Europe was bombed and rebuilding. We experienced a major boom and held on to that until the world caught up. I don’t think there’s a Republican or Democratic conspiracy to screw the middle class. We either had to be isolationist or globalist. Companies wanted to sell their goods overseas and then take advantage of cheap labor overseas. Now we are kneecapped as the living standard of the rest of the world catches up to where we’ve been for a long time. That is free market capitalism at work, and without intervention it can only create more haves and have-nots at the expense of the have-somes. The more I read about late-stage capitalism, the more I believe that’s where we’re heading, and why my personal politics have been shifting left.
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Yeah, I agree with that. Well said.
 
So Biden may not be at fault for the current inflationary trends. There are a lot of factors involved.

One being Trump and Congress pushing through a Covid ‘recovery’ stimulus bill to the tune of I believe 6.1 trillion dollars.

But when Biden got into office and started implementing the green new deal energy policies there was almost immediately a jump in fuel prices. As it became more expensive to move goods to market the price of everything quickly jumped up.

So Joe, while not being solely responsible, definitely had a hand in it.
 
Late-stage capitalism is a concept I am not familiar with. I think I have been drifting left just out of common sense. Maybe this explains or codifies some of these feelings.

Recommended reading?
 
RFR said:
But when Biden got into office and started implementing the green new deal energy policies there was almost immediately a jump in fuel prices. As it became more expensive to move goods to market the price of everything quickly jumped up.

So Joe, while not being solely responsible, definitely had a hand in it.
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Absolutely. A very tough political pickle he found himself in. Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't.
 
60's guy said:
Hate to break it to you, but it's the Republicans and Democrats alike who are complicit in lowering the living standards of middle class Americans. It's a combined effort.

I disagree. If the average price of gasoline drops 5 or 10 cents per gallon, every POTUS claims credit for making it happen. In Biden's case, however, he has been selling off and reducing the Strategic Oil Reserve to dangerously low levels, which is NOT a good strategy in terms of preparedness in defense of the country.

The cost of mayonnaise keeps rising right along with everything else at the grocery store these days. I'll Joe a pass on that, though, because corporate greed is indeed responsible, in addition to the rising transportation costs of delivery.
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I agree, both serve business and only provide lip service to voters during voting cycles.
 
60's guy said:
In Biden's case, however, he has been selling off and reducing the Strategic Oil Reserve to dangerously low levels, which is NOT a good strategy in terms of preparedness in defense of the country.

The cost of mayonnaise keeps rising right along with everything else at the grocery store these days. I'll Joe a pass on that, though, because corporate greed is indeed responsible, in addition to the rising transportation costs of delivery.
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A couple of points on that. Whether or not it's a good idea to further tap those resources - the administration is claiming that it hopes lower the price burden on consumers. They *say* that they're trying to help. My understanding is that it will have little to no effect.

One more thing - it's important to keep in mind that fuel that americans use is purchased on a global market. Even when the US became more energy independent in recent years - that did not mean that the companies doing the extraction sold directly to the US market. Those resources still get sold on the global market. Fuel prices, speculation, and all that is a very complicated matter. I only say that because over the years, when discussing politics, I hear many folks try to make it sound simple. It's not.

Ima go watch the fake news now.:LOL:
 
Sky Blue Lou said:
Still though it brings up a point. The SPR should be set up OUTSIDE of presidential manipulation. I'm not sure who should have the say so but definitely not prexy.
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I agree that the manipulation of SPR should remain out of bounds for any sitting POTUS to deplete and sell off any portion of the SPR to other nations for any reasons that are perhaps politically motivated.

I'd like to suggest it that control of the SPR should be within DOD purview, but POTUS is the boss man.

Obviously, there aren't easy solutions or easy fixes, but I still like the thread premise intent.
 
PorterhouseMusic said:
A couple of points on that. Whether or not it's a good idea to further tap those resources - the administration is claiming that it hopes lower the price burden on consumers. They *say* that they're trying to help. My understanding is that it will have little to no effect.

One more thing - it's important to keep in mind that fuel that americans use is purchased on a global market. Even when the US became more energy independent in recent years - that did not mean that the companies doing the extraction sold directly to the US market. Those resources still get sold on the global market. Fuel prices, speculation, and all that is a very complicated matter. I only say that because over the years, when discussing politics, I hear many folks try to make it sound simple. It's not.

Ima go watch the fake news now.:LOL:
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Sadly, I think that any discounts/reductions in wholesale are taken back up in retail by greedy greed greeders...
 
Sky Blue Lou said:
Late-stage capitalism is a concept I am not familiar with. I think I have been drifting left just out of common sense. Maybe this explains or codifies some of these feelings.

Recommended reading?
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I wish I could point to a particular book, but I’ve just been reading articles. I will look around and report back if I find something.
 
PorterhouseMusic said:
Ima go watch the fake news now.:LOL:
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C'mon man! You know damn well, just as I know, that every news channel in the U.S. is fake/biased opinions at best.

Honest to truth journalism died decades ago.

Once upon a time it was easy to "follow the money" (Watergate era). Long gone are those days.
 
60's guy said:
C'mon man! You know damn well, just as I know, that every news channel in the U.S. is fake/biased opinions at best.

Honest to truth journalism died decades ago.

Once upon a time it was easy to "follow the money" (Watergate era). Long gone are those days.
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I miss Walter Cronkite.
 
Dave Matthews said:
Sadly, I think that any discounts/reductions in wholesale are taken back up in retail by greedy greed greeders...
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Maybe so but don't forget that greedy greed greeders have to compete with less greedy greed greeders so things (in retail at least) tend to slide consumer side. I'm not exactly in retail but me greedy greed impulses are very definitely constrained by the market I compete in.
 
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