The Mastering Guys Say... Har-bal sucks?

[jmorris]

I've never heard your work.

Go to Fordvans site and listen, there is a lot there. EXCELLENT work I think. Go to my site, maybe I suck!

 

[Massive Master]

MEs have an organization like the Freemasons. I would tell all of you where the next meeting is but then I would have to kill you, so you wouldn't be able to come anyway.

That reminds me - Isn't it Ludwig's turn to bring doughnuts this time because he forgot last time?

 

[Ford Van]

That reminds me - Isn't it Ludwig's turn to bring doughnuts this time because he forgot last time?

Sorry John, it was my fault. I told him I would cover for him last time, but ate them all en route.

Jelly or cream filled?

 

[gcapel]

Har-Bal is the Miracle Whip of mastering.

G.

What about Dukes?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

What about Dukes?

The only Dukes we have around here is Duke's Drive-In around 79th & Harlem. Other than that I have no idea what you're talking about.

G.

 

[gcapel]

The only Dukes we have around here is Duke's Drive-In around 79th & Harlem. Other than that I have no idea what you're talking about.

G.

I guess they don't have dukes mayonase up north.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I guess they don't have dukes mayonase up north.

Not that I've seen, anyway. Around these parts it's Hellman's Real Mayonnaise or the highway.

OK, Kraft mayonnaise is available also, as I imagine it probably is around the solar system, but that's second in preference around here to Hellman's.

G.

 

[masteringhouse]

That reminds me - Isn't it Ludwig's turn to bring doughnuts this time because he forgot last time?

Well... Bob asked Adam Ayan to bring 'em and he forgot. At least he remembered the beer!

mmmm, beer and doughnuts. Now that's what they call "The Breakfast of Audio Engineers".

 

[tkingen]

They make creams for hairball problems. You squirt it out on your finger and lick it up.
Am I too late with this dumb joke?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

They make creams for hairball problems. You squirt it out on your finger and lick it up.
Am I too late with this dumb joke?

I think maybe so...it's all about various extremely fattening foods now, I think. It's about time for NYM to come in and ball us all out for eating so unhealthy (j/k NYM )

G.

 

[RAMI]

I'm still thinking about the Kennedy thing. I wonder if it was Jackie's Har-bal????

 

[Llarion]

Not that I've seen, anyway. Around these parts it's Hellman's Real Mayonnaise or the highway.

OK, Kraft mayonnaise is available also, as I imagine it probably is around the solar system, but that's second in preference around here to Hellman's.

G.

For those west of the Mississippi; Hellman's (the holy grail of mayonnaise) is called Best Foods Mayonnaise. Same stuff, regional naming convention.

Kraft is okay. not bad, not great.

Miracle Whip is not somethign you use instead of mayonnaise, it's somethgin you use when you want a tangier taste. I think MW and mayo are about as similar as ketchup and mustard. I like both, but in different applications.

Now, as a Peter Pan hardcore diehard, I'm in mourning right now.

 

[Llarion]

Incidentally, I watched the demo of har-bal, and I think two things:

1) There's a big difference between electronically flat and acoustically flat, yes?
2) I don't think the authors of this software get that notion. So what if the curve looks right on the screen? How does the damn thing SOUND?

This seems like lighting a movie set using only your ears. If the light sounds good, it must be correct.

 

[Ford Van]

Incidentally, I watched the demo of har-bal, and I think two things:

1) There's a big difference between electronically flat and acoustically flat, yes?
2) I don't think the authors of this software get that notion. So what if the curve looks right on the screen? How does the damn thing SOUND?

This seems like lighting a movie set using only your ears. If the light sounds good, it must be correct.

The reason Har-Bal cannot work is because JUST matching an eq curve DOES NOT make the mixes sound similar!

It is WHAT makes up the frequency range, and the stacked overtones of each instrument that make up the subtlety of how our ears perceive music!

Sorry, but a mix with primarily accordion, fiddle, and bagpipe compared to a mix of violin, piano, and flute will NEVER sound the same, even if you matched the eq curves of both.

 

[masteringhouse]

The reason Har-Bal cannot work is because JUST matching an eq curve DOES NOT make the mixes sound similar!

It is WHAT makes up the frequency range, and the stacked overtones of each instrument that make up the subtlety of how our ears perceive music!

Sorry, but a mix with primarily accordion, fiddle, and bagpipe compared to a mix of violin, piano, and flute will NEVER sound the same, even if you matched the eq curves of both.

Absolutely true (oh crap I'm agreeing with FV again. ).

One of the main reasons I dislike Harrible is that it gives the wrong perception of what mastering is about. Mastering is not a procedure for matching EQ curves and levels. It's a procedure for bringing out the full potential of a set of mixes, making them sound their best while still allowing them to feel as if they fit together on the same album and translate well across different audio systems.

Even if the instrumentation, key, and song are the same, matching EQs like this won't work. To prove this try taking a remake of the same song by two artists (or different versions by the same artist) and match the EQ between them. I would bet that in addition to them not sounding the same the "improvement" by doing this would be debatable.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

One of the main reasons I dislike Harrible is that it gives the wrong perception of what mastering is about.

Exactly. It's yet another tool that promotes the ugly idea that mixing should be done during the mastering stage instead of actually during the mix. As someone else said in another thread - but I love it so much I'm going to steal it - "We'll fix it in the shrinkwrap."

G.

 

[Dogman]

So if I take this software, load in I'm Broken from Pantera, hook it up to look like Oops I Did It Again from Britney, Pantera will sound like Britney?


Sweet.....

Or will they just look like Britney?

 

[Massive Master]

I loaded the soundtrack to Mortal Kombat into it and then tried to apply it to my kid's "Hello Kitty" CD and wound up with this:

 

[Llarion]

Mastering is not a procedure for matching EQ curves and levels. It's a procedure for bringing out the full potential of a set of mixes, making them sound their best while still allowing them to feel as if they fit together on the same album and translate well across different audio systems.

The most succinct definition for mastering I've ever heard. Love it. It's a hard thing to explain to someone who doesn't get it! This will help a lot!

It is WHAT makes up the frequency range, and the stacked overtones of each instrument that make up the subtlety of how our ears perceive music!

True dat!

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Or will they just look like Britney?

Dimebag Darrel with a shaved crotch? *shudder*

G.