The Loudness wars ~ revisited for clarity...

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benage said:
Is it just me or does anyone else actually enjoy the process of trying to make a track loud?
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It's the same kind of thrill you get from going out to the desert and shooting TVs with high powered rifles, or burning ants with a magnifying glass.
 
benage said:
Is it just me or does anyone else actually enjoy the process of trying to make a track loud? I mean in the same way I enjoy trying to get a balanced mix I like the process of making sure the sounds chosen and recordings will hold up and the challenge of seeing how loud I can get my mix before sacrificing the sonic quality (significantly). Obviously I woudnt enjoy it if I felt I had to trash my music but if the loudness war didn't exist I'd miss that extra challenge, am I twisted?
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Yes. Most definitely.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
It's the same kind of thrill you get from going out to the desert and shooting TVs with high powered rifles, or burning ants with a magnifying glass.
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Burning Ants wasnt my thing. But.... If I had TV's to shoot, my ass would have been doing it. We shot mostly street signs, bottles, cans, raccoons, squirrels, rabits and the occasional peace loving, anti NRA type. Ted Nugent for president !!!!!
 
BushmasterM4 said:
Ted Nugent for president !!!!!
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I would vote for Ted so fast --- If he were a Democrat, I'd vote several times. :rolleyes:

Talk about a no-nonsense / no bull$hit / common sense / live-your-life-and-help-others-help-themselves (but "up yours" if you're not interested in helping yourself) type -- "Uncle Ted" FTW.

He's getting one of my votes on the NRA ballot, along with R. Lee.

Everyone loves to throw that "who would you want answering that call at 3AM" thing -- Stretch that out to "If the entire world pretty much up and quit working (no power, no cars, giant EMP blows out the grid and we're thrown back into the stone-age in 10 minutes), who would you want to be hanging out with?" Ted f'ing Nugent. Hands f'ing down. Mad survival skills, organized, great shot with a bow or a bullet, knows how to read nature, plays a mean riff here and there -- What's not to love?

I'd be starting a new acoustic rock band and feasting on fresh meat with TN while the rest of the world was falling into chaos.
 
Massive Master said:
I would vote for Ted so fast --- If he were a Democrat, I'd vote several times. :rolleyes:

Talk about a no-nonsense / no bull$hit / common sense / live-your-life-and-help-others-help-themselves (but "up yours" if you're not interested in helping yourself) type -- "Uncle Ted" FTW.

He's getting one of my votes on the NRA ballot, along with R. Lee.

Everyone loves to throw that "who would you want answering that call at 3AM" thing -- Stretch that out to "If the entire world pretty much up and quit working (no power, no cars, giant EMP blows out the grid and we're thrown back into the stone-age in 10 minutes), who would you want to be hanging out with?" Ted f'ing Nugent. Hands f'ing down. Mad survival skills, organized, great shot with a bow or a bullet, knows how to read nature, plays a mean riff here and there -- What's not to love?

I'd be starting a new acoustic rock band and feasting on fresh meat with TN while the rest of the world was falling into chaos.
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Hell, let's all hope the world ends sometime soon, eh? Or at least gets nuked back to the stone age. Way to function, Ted!
 
It'd be good if records were released with dynamics, and the iPods/Mixers/car systems included a limiter/compressor in them the same way you currently get EQ controls in most systems. It would obviously have to be less complicated and just use a ratio/threshold system.
 
Why mess with compressors in the hands of the public when we can just release two masters of every song? Instant solution right there, and nobody is doing it.

On a side note: Wow, I can't stand this nested-scrolling thing the board is doing for longer posts. Breaks iPad browsing, and is plenty annoying on a desktop.
 
PaddyGordon said:
It'd be good if records were released with dynamics, and the iPods/Mixers/car systems included a limiter/compressor in them the same way you currently get EQ controls in most systems. It would obviously have to be less complicated and just use a ratio/threshold system.
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That would just reduce everything to the lowest common denominator. If I have to listen to something with the dynamics crushed out of it I'd rather the crushing be done by a mastering engineer than an iTunes option. Simply lowering the over-compressed stuff to the same perceived volume as the less compressed stuff would be better, and it would reduce the incentive to over-compress.
 
192 MP3s for the iPud/iPhown demographic,
320s for the generic portable player demographic,
hard cut 20khz for the discman demographic,
non dolby hiss for the walkman demographic,
carrier wave & reduced image for the FM demographic and
hard eqing for the pocket transistor demographic.
Portable music has always been about compromise. Those who like/want/desire/ "need" better quality in each demographic have been able to seek out & use the several tweaks available.
The Lowest Common Denominator is the basis of mass marketing & big profits.
Those who make machines or music that aim at better quality audio or ignore the bigger market know that revenue will be reduced accordingly.
Loudness is now a factor in the LCD - that's all.
 
rayc said:
Those who like/want/desire/ "need" better quality in each demographic have been able to seek out & use the several tweaks available.
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But they can't. Once the music is squashed flatter than an armadillo crossing I-35, it's over. No matter what the user's desire, the real dynamics can't be recovered. Everyone must live with the LCD.
 
I meant they could tweak the quality of the format not the source material. Sadly the fact that it's part of the LCD means that marketing wins & consumers wear it or leave it.
On another level I don't actually buy any super squashed music...
 
the idea of people being put off by having to touch a volume knob ...... or skipping a song because it doesn't blast out of the speakers just confirms, to me, that the listening public is lazier and stupider than ever.
Personally I don't give a shit. I do my recordings for myself and I like stuff that doesn't sound like crap.
What the masses do has little to do with what I listen to or otherwise I'd be all up in that non-singer, Taylor Swifts' crappy music ..... or Gaga or any of the other manufactured 'artists'.

For those with a working studio that they need to be profitable ( hah! ) then there's simply no way to escape the current stupidity concerning loudness.
For those that simply want to do good music ..... they probably never worried about it in the first place.
 
Lt. Bob said:
the idea of people being put off by having to touch a volume knob ...... or skipping a song because it doesn't blast out of the speakers just confirms, to me, that the listening public is lazier and stupider than ever.
Personally I don't give a shit. I do my recordings for myself and I like stuff that doesn't sound like crap.
What the masses do has little to do with what I listen to or otherwise I'd be all up in that non-singer, Taylor Swifts' crappy music ..... or Gaga or any of the other manufactured 'artists'.

For those with a working studio that they need to be profitable ( hah! ) then there's simply no way to escape the current stupidity concerning loudness.
For those that simply want to do good music ..... they probably never worried about it in the first place.
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I don't think "good music" and "profitable" are mutually exclusive, i think its all too easy to claim that the successfull ones have "sold out" or just creating bad music. But millions of people buy Lady Gaga's records, how many buy yours? +is that because those millions of people are stupid? I think its easy for musicians to lose sight of what people who don't actually know how to play/recrd music want to hear. Btw not having a go at you at all bob, im guilty of all this myself! :)
 
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I like dynamics as much as anyone. If I'm listening at home, it's no trouble. If I'm listening in the car it is. A couple years ago I got a CD that was IMO way too soft. Yes, there were a couple snare hits that probably peaked at zero, but not have a $2000 car stereo system, I had to have the volume dimed on that CD and it still wasn't loud enough. So when I got home, I ripped it, loaded the best songs into Pro Tools and saw how much headroom was available and cut it in half. Still not enough to detract from the dynamic range, but yes those few snare hits got squashed. And it was still very listenable on the home stereo, and no I didn't notice the snare hits were squashed a bit. Having -20 dbfs to get the full dynamic range isn't worth it. -10 dbfs works just fine with it peaking at 0 db. You still hear soft, and you still hear loud. It's just that you can actually hear the soft without having to turn it up then turn it back down again on the same song.
 
I've just started finding out about/learning about the loudness wars. they seem dumb and pointless as shit.
but the loudness war research ive done has managed to make me feel like getting my recordings mastered would equate to "selling out" ... whatever that means
:confused:
 
Isn't it terrible that even remote controls are too much to bother with these days.
But hey, it's not to much trouble to butcher the dynamics as determined by the original artist.
I guess the Mix Your Own Guitar Hero Vix syndrome has struck.
Kidage, Don't sell out - tell the ME what you're after - it's their job to provide the service to best meet your needs.
 
kidkage said:
I've just started finding out about/learning about the loudness wars. they seem dumb and pointless as shit.
but the loudness war research ive done has managed to make me feel like getting my recordings mastered would equate to "selling out" ... whatever that means
:confused:
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Only if you equate "mastering" with "making it loud" -- Which a lot of people do. But it's really one of the more insignificant and "afterthought-ish" parts of the mastering process. Well, ideally, anyway...
 
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