The Loudness wars ~ revisited for clarity...

  • Thread starter Thread starter grimtraveller
  • Start date Start date
A good loud mix will have all the right EQ moves, the musicians will have been recorded cleanly and well through quality signal paths. Unless you were recording distorted amps the music should be recorded as cleanly as possible this will reduce a build up (or exacerbation) of distortion when the mastering engineer does his thing.

Getting it up there is definitely related to mastering as well.

cheers

SafeandSound Mastering
online mastering
audio mastering
 
I actually listen to CDs - in a silent, accoustically "reasonable" room, over a good stereo system with good speakers. I record my CDs to be played in this kind of listening environment. I know most music will be listened to through ear buds in less than silent surroundings or in a car. But I don't let this influence my mastering. I like dynamics and this requires leaving sufficient headroom for the peaks. Yes, you can squash it to raise the overall volume, but this is at the expense of MY listening pleasure. Classical, and to a slightly lesser extent Jazz, are not subject to these ridiculous levels of compression because dynamics are an integral and necessary feature of the genres.
Music should be an "occasion". It requires concentration and undivided attention. It is more than "noise" at played back at a consistent volume. As much as anything, the loudness wars reflect an attitude to music that is at odds with the spirit of music. Problem with the volume? Reach for the volume knob.
 
K Road said:
As much as anything, the loudness wars reflect an attitude to music that is at odds with the spirit of music. Problem with the volume? Reach for the volume knob.
Click to expand...

Why is the spirit of music listening in a quiet room and concentrating? rock and roll and hip hop can be all about fun and pool parties. Even classical and jazz are nice in the background while I study, or in the car on a long road trip.

I don't think you can limit music to an "occasion" and mix/master for that one environment...unless you don't want anyone else to listen to your music and enjoy it on their terms.
 
K Road said:
I actually listen to CDs - in a silent, accoustically "reasonable" room, over a good stereo system with good speakers. I record my CDs to be played in this kind of listening environment. I know most music will be listened to through ear buds in less than silent surroundings or in a car. But I don't let this influence my mastering. I like dynamics and this requires leaving sufficient headroom for the peaks. Yes, you can squash it to raise the overall volume, but this is at the expense of MY listening pleasure. Classical, and to a slightly lesser extent Jazz, are not subject to these ridiculous levels of compression because dynamics are an integral and necessary feature of the genres.
Music should be an "occasion". It requires concentration and undivided attention. It is more than "noise" at played back at a consistent volume. As much as anything, the loudness wars reflect an attitude to music that is at odds with the spirit of music. Problem with the volume? Reach for the volume knob.
Click to expand...

The "reach for the volume knob" argument is as tired and stupid as the loudness debate. Sure, reach for the knob, then reach for it again to turn the player back down when the next song comes on.

You don't define the spirit of music, grandpa. If listening to music is a mental exercise for you, maybe you need to find a new hobby.
 
New hobby, hmmmmmm. To be a smart-ass. Rhetorical moment: Is the art, music reproduction? I may be of the old school but the art is in the " reproduction". Back to the tamales.
 
Thurgood said:
New hobby, hmmmmmm. To be a smart-ass. Rhetorical moment: Is the art, music reproduction? I may be of the old school but the art is in the " reproduction". Back to the tamales.
Click to expand...

There is no art. Art is a term thrown around by pompous jackasses. Music is just sound. Sometimes it pleases you, sometimes it doesn't.
 
I love these general opinion threads where everyone beats eachother over the head with nonsense.
 
Damn G. no heads need be beatin'.. LOL. Truly it is just propogation of molecdlites hehe . Did a tree just fall? Oh f***k one jsut did. Tree surgery by the neighbors. funny.
 
My neighbors are trimming trees. That was the intended humour as a reference to what is good or bad dependent upon ones percecption. one more item: new hobbies? too many to choose from. WS.
 
K Road said:
Classical, and to a slightly lesser extent Jazz, are not subject to these ridiculous levels of compression because dynamics are an integral and necessary feature of the genres.
Click to expand...

Neither are they subject to much in the way of listening or buying. I listen to a lot of jazz, have done so all my life. But that puts me in a tiny minority with little say about how music is done today.

K Road said:
Music should be an "occasion". It requires concentration and undivided attention. It is more than "noise" at played back at a consistent volume. As much as anything, the loudness wars reflect an attitude to music that is at odds with the spirit of music. Problem with the volume? Reach for the volume knob.
Click to expand...

Why should music be an occasion? Chamber music isn't intended for rapt attention, it's intended to be background sound for dinner parties. Muzak is a successful business based on background music. Listeners' use of music defines how it "should" be used. People use iPods, so music ought to work in that situation. If people want constant noise then that's what they'll buy. When commercial viability matters then you have to play the game, otherwise just do whatever pleases you.
 
So... let's re-cap here. I said I listen to CDs. By this I meant I listen to albums, i.e. holistically conceived audio "entities". Just like all of us here who record CD's, as opposed to "singles", the mastering process involves the arrangement of tunes, chronologically, to engage the listener both musically and lyrically - high's and low's - that when taken together capture and continue to "seduce" the listeners attention, independent of the relative volumes of the individual tracks (which in any case must be consistent across the whole CD). How that is done is pretty much arbitrary according to the tastes and intended purposes of the creator. My point being, if you listen to CDs in this way, it is no great strain to turn the volume knob - which on most modern systems is simply a question of hitting the remote.
As for music being an "occasion": well it is all very subjective. If you claim to defend music consumerism - I applaud you. My point here was that for ME - as a singer/song writer/recordist - listening to music is often an exercise in critical listening, a learning process, the fruits of which I harvest in my listening pleasure, the seeds of which I sow in my own musical recording efforts.
Of course, I also enjoy getting totally wasted and using the music as an audio back drop to respond to the garbage that generally goes down in the Cave - a residue of which seems to permeate the more sober and considered General Discussions Threads.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
People use iPods, so music ought to work in that situation. If people want constant noise then that's what they'll buy.
Click to expand...
It's not that simple. It's a chicken and egg thing. 20 years ago, people listened on decent home systems. Studios made music that sounded good. These days people listen to mp3's on the worst speakers/buds imaginable. Studios make music that does not benefit for being played on a decent home system.

So...Did people ditch their home systems because there was nothing to play on them, or did studios stop caring about sound quality because people ditched their home systems? I think it was a feedback cycle to get where we are now. Less albums were available that you'd want to play on a stereo, so less stereos were bought. So less albums were available that you'd want to play on a stereo... So less stereos were bought. So less...blah blah

It is no surprise that nobody owns a decent stereo anymore. If the only video signal available was VHS, nobody would own an HDTV either.
When commercial viability matters then you have to play the game, otherwise just do whatever pleases you.
Click to expand...
That doesn't make any sense. Old CDs sell just fine. Not to mention that there is no barrier to making and releasing two separate masters, especially in a downloadable world. This argument should be long over. For the life of me I can't figure out why everybody refuses to release a good version along with the stupid version.
 
Chibi Nappa said:
Not to mention that there is no barrier to making and releasing two separate masters, especially in a downloadable world. This argument should be long over. For the life of me I can't figure out why everybody refuses to release a good version along with the stupid version.
Click to expand...

problem solved, right?
 
If every one would apply the "K" system for monitoring levels we wouldnt be having this conversation. There is a standard the movie industry uses for movies, so it would be nice if music would adopt it too. On a limiter note, I bought the new "Slate Digital FGX Compressor/Limiter and it is truely is nice. The sucker will get you the volume, but it doesnt suck the life (dynamics) out of your mixes as bad as the others do.
 
Is it just me or does anyone else actually enjoy the process of trying to make a track loud? I mean in the same way I enjoy trying to get a balanced mix I like the process of making sure the sounds chosen and recordings will hold up and the challenge of seeing how loud I can get my mix before sacrificing the sonic quality (significantly). Obviously I woudnt enjoy it if I felt I had to trash my music but if the loudness war didn't exist I'd miss that extra challenge, am I twisted?
 
I enjoy the process of bringing a track to where it "wants to be" dynamically. I do not, have not, will not enjoy making it one lousy dB louder.

Yes - You are twisted. :spank:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top