The Great Homerec'er "Mastering" Dual!

[atomictoyz]

and the answer to that one would be.......... no

I think the words " its possible" or "maybe" would be more true than an emphatic no. For instance not all homerecorders here are people with mommies computer or the lastest and greatest DAW. What your saying sjoko is that out of the thousands of people who have come to this forum, NONE possess the natural ability, talent, experience and technical knowledge for creating a better pseudo-mastering job than Bruce. And why am I suppose to believe this is true? Maybe someone should post a list here to why Bruce is more capable and talented than any other member of this entire forum? After we get past this question maybe Ill ask some more that haven't been addressed directly. I do't want Bruce to answer the questions, he is kind of biased when it come to himself, who wouldn't be though.

Peace,
Dennis

 

[sjoko2]

Dennis ------ I didn't know you could make so many words out of one NO!

I wouldn't be so arrogant to state that nobody here ever would do a better job than Bruce, I hope they would.

But, I really think I have stated my beliefs pretty clearly. Look back a couple of pages, read the "racing mechanic" thing I posted as a comparison. Never loose touch with reality

 

[BBB]

"Oh Nooooo!" BBB cries as the thread starts to fluctuate in and out of the "Homewrecker v. Pro Mastering" debate (as if anyone didn't see that coming at the beginning of the thread).

 

[BBB]

Actually, I'd like to take the tune and give it a mastering shot myself. First, let the ol' Finalizer Plus take it's own shot. Second, trying my own mastering on it. Then posting the results. Unfortunately, my studio is in pieces and may not be reassembled for months.

Hmm. This almost hints at a Mastering Clinic, like the MP3 mixing clinic. Aside from the fact that Homewreckers shouldn't master at home , it'd be fun to get feedback on our efforts.

There may be those here that think they can do mastering at home. There may be those here that think they can't. There may be those here that don't give a rat's ass whether they can or they can't, they just want to learn about it and mess with their own shit, whether they make it better or fuck it up.

Hell, if we can teach some homewreckers how to remove some transient spikes, balance some frequencies, and add a little desired punch so they can burn a little better CD without ruining the mix in the process more power to us.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Maybe now is a good time to point out that I am hardly a recording deity, as much as Dennis is trying to make out that I'm intending to be one ...... from the start of this I told EVERYONE I am NOT a mastering engineer........

BUT.... I do have good ears and I simply used them to make the track sound bigger based on my experience in knowing A) my control room's sound B) my monitor's sound C) my personal preferences D) how to use the gear I own

Nothing more, nothing less...........

Bruce

 

[zip]

You bet.

uh oh, zip.

you got samples?

we could see what people here think....

Queue

I have no place to post them however. You want to post them on your site? Let me know what you need and I will send em.

I would LOVE to see what people think...even if they say it sucks...

At least I'd know.

And Sjoko makes a great point. I DEFINITELY think there was influence by the artists on this one.

"Zip,

no offence.... (good intro as to proclaim no intent)

If you have to remaster music that you buy in order to listen to, either:

A. The Music sucked to begin with. i.e. not sonically, just musically.

or

B. You don't care what the music is, just how it sounds. "

Emeric...

The music does NOT suck musically. It is very good - I personally love it. This is why I took the effort to "remaster" it.

I must say I don't understand your second comment...wish to elaborate?

 

[atomictoyz]

read the "racing mechanic" thing I posted as a comparison.

I read the racing mechanic analogy and it doesn't work for me...dang! After having the benefits of having a father who worked in Electrical Engineering at the Boeing Sonic Lab, I also helped work on his cars, show cars and race cars both. I owned and operated my own race car in my early 20's. Wanna buy some tools, in fact Ill trade sjoko2 some tools of that trade for his trade tools :0) Actually my response to the
NO was to spark a little more controversy into the already hot subject. There is one thing Ive learned from my experiences as an ex-audio technician for a pro studio, and Im sure sjoko will agree. There is a tremendous amount of mentoring that takes place in the field of mastering engineering, almost like a breeding process. You just don't decide to be a mastering engineer, there is quite a bit of tutoring that happens, a transfer of knowledge and experience. Just like any other field, the gifted ones have to channel things in a proper way. Think of Mastering engineers as the Jedi Master, who has his student by his side, observing not only what to do, but what not to do. Grooming the student for the day he must do it on his own, and be trusted that he will do the job. You can't trust anyone to do it right, they have to prove that thay can do it right. I think this thread has been good for lots of people to see how much more difficult it can bo to do something, rather than just typing about it. Maybe to help remove some confusion some terms may be revised. Use the word 2 track original or pre- master, let the Mastering facilities use the term "master" that way the duplication plant gets the right thing. If everything is labeled master, then bad things can happen. I label alot of my 2 track originals as proof copies, I attach notes on what my impressions are of the mix, then if its not right, it gets filed for reference in a yellow filing cabinet. So far everything is in the yellow cabinet, unless its someone birthday. Should we have the word mastering replaced with pre mastering under the forum title? That would help keep things under control right. If there is any other provacative thing I can do to keep this thread going until the new year please let me know.
I would hope that Bruce wants to be a Recording Diety, not for egotistical reasons, but for the comfort, that happiness you feel when you've met your own expectations. Perfection evades our capture, but we still hunt for it with zeal.

Peace,
Dennis

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Of course... I *WANT* to be, but I freely admit I'm only 95% of the way there now....



Bruce

 

[kristian]

save my soul

that hurt to listen to. i could only make it about 40 seconds in before my kidneys fell out my arse. we can't decide what sounds good becuase its all so hard to listen to.

 

[mixmkr]

Re: save my soul

that hurt to listen to. i could only make it about 40 seconds in before my kidneys fell out my arse. we can't decide what sounds good becuase its all so hard to listen to.

Interesting that the song had that kind of intestinal power on you....! Of course, like a bunch of your other posts, your comments seem to lack any specifics, so it is hard to tell what the fuck you are talking about. ....that your monitoring system sucks, the mastering sucks, the production and/or music/performances suck, or your brain is now on overload because you can't pee now, but only shit interior bodily organs.

where'd you get a name like "kristian" anyway?

 

[Queue]

chris,
I think he said he didn't like the song, and could not listen to it long enough to comment...

Queue

 

[JFogarty]

Re: save my soul

that hurt to listen to. i could only make it about 40 seconds in before my kidneys fell out my arse. we can't decide what sounds good becuase its all so hard to listen to.

I don't think that that kinda of criticism helps anyone. Well, maybe it helps you raise your post count...

 

[mixmkr]

chris,
I think he said he didn't like the song, and could not listen to it long enough to comment...

Queue

I suppose you can draw that conclusion, but [from his post] you can also possibly assume that the "___" didn't know where the "on/off" switch was on his playback system, strained to hear the music and *overdid it* physically in an attempt to do so...and by using the word "we" thinks that he and his kidney constitutes more than one person....or maybe since it appears his brain is in his "arse", that his butt IS another lifeform......who knows??....you can't tell from his post.....my point. It just sounds like another asswipe who praises the J-station and says the POD sucks, and has never used either. ...but owns a Mackie 1202 because it has "the" preamps in it...or so he's read.

 

[kristian]

I'm sorry, i don't know how any of you could actually take this song seriously. The bass guitar sounds are from sim city 2000! This is supposed to be about mixing and mastering, not about singing and sampled instruments. But I couldn't see past it.

you're right i've never used a jstation or pod - listen

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Kristian,

You've missed the point completely - it's not about "the song" itself -- this exercise was about premastering ANY given track.

It could have been a comedy parody song for all anyone cared, it was simply a "mastering" exercise.....

Bruce

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Er, Kristian....

I just heard your tune.... from a performance, sound quality, arrangement, and balanced mix perspective, Mixmkr's tune had you beat........... sorry dude...

Your vocals are too low in the mix and there are issues with the kick/bass relationship you need to work out -- could be your monitoring system.

There are also timing issues in performance at the beginning of the song that need to be addressed.

Vocal dry is fairly common now, but the vocal track is also missing "depth" and all the tracks need more air.....

Notice I made no comment about the content of the song - religious or secular, because that is completely irrelevant. I'm not Christian, nor do I listen to Christian music, but I am a professional. As a pro, my job is to engineer for the client, whether their material is to my taste or not. Of course, it does make the job easier is the music IS to my taste, but anyways.......

Regardless of the musical style, there is a "standard" crtieria of sonic quality and balance that any mix needs to meet and that's what an engineer will work towards.


Bruce

 

[kristian]

But just like mixing differs with subject matter, so does mastering. And how many people would actually master this song (or mine)? Its kinda beyond the point now. But seriously, you don't go over equations in math no one would actually ever use.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

There are certain mixing practices that are preferred for one style of music over another, but there is still a minimum criteria of balance and sound quality that is universal to all music styles.

For mastering, there is less distinction, since the primary focus is bringing up the mix to minimum accepted standards and improving it when possible.

I really have no clue what you're talking about regarding your math equations analogy.

Bruce

 

[zip]

"and by using the word "we" thinks that he and his kidney constitutes more than one person...."

Sometimes after a rough weekend it feels like my LIVER and I are two people...

I personally like the MESSAGE of the song. I also think the rough mix was very good...

I don't think it will make the top ten however.

Agree - I guess some people didn't understand the point of the exercise...

I still like the "premastering" job you did Bruce.

zip >>

 

[atomictoyz]

I just heard your tune.... from a performance, sound quality, arrangement, and balanced mix perspective,just about anybodies tune had you badly beaten........... sorry dude...

Your vocals are too low in the mix and there are issues with the kick/bass relationship you need to work out -- could be your monitoring system.

There are also timing issues in performance at the beginning of the song that need to be addressed.

Vocal dry is fairly common now, but the vocal track is also missing "depth" and all the tracks need more air.....



Regardless of the musical style, there is a "standard" criteria of sonic quality and balance that any mix needs to meet and that's what an engineer will work towards.


Bruce

For a second I though Bruce was reviewing my music again....the flash backs, the horror....I know it was painful to hear but.....ok Ill pay for the counselor but thats it! No psycotropics for you. So Im thinking Proto J's over the YSM-1's, and Im rebuilding an amp for power, its a class A amp my father built originally (electrical engineers need lives) and its clean, except for some cat hair it works nice. He built it on a 18 guage steel frame trimmed in mahogany, Im still trying to convince him he needs tubes though. Are you side tracked yet? Bruce is entirely right on the minimum standards for music though, even a novice listener will be thrown off by balance and timing issues. Sorry for the interruption, our regular programming will now resume.



Peace,
Dennis