The cold, hard, facts

[Nameless]

i must say, there are some crappy plugins, there are good ones. usually the only thing that is really crappy is the person turning the knobs.

That's understandable until you've tried (HIGH QUALITY) outboard gear. If you think the digital stuff sounds good that's great, I know a lot of people who do. Personally, compared to the outboard gear, I can't stand them.

 

[mshilarious]

That's understandable until you've tried (HIGH QUALITY) outboard gear. If you think the digital stuff sounds good that's great, I know a lot of people who do. Personally, compared to the outboard gear, I can't stand them.

One could say the exact same thing about cheap vs. expensive converters. So what? Again, I say, if you can't do a respectable mix with plugs, you can't do one with hardware.

Your point here works against everything else you have written. Is it better to spend $500 on plugs and $1,500 on your room, or the whole $2,000 on outboard?

 

[mrhotapples]

Oh oh! I know the answer. It's neither. It's "spend the 1500 on a U87 and some cases of beer."

That is the key.

Get drunk, point the expensive mic at something (an oven, perhaps), and autotune it until it sounds pro. It's easier than you think.

 

[MadHatterTCM]

That's understandable until you've tried (HIGH QUALITY) outboard gear. If you think the digital stuff sounds good that's great, I know a lot of people who do. Personally, compared to the outboard gear, I can't stand them.

Yes, for the most part this is true. However it'd be more fair to say that the sound is different than that of outboard gear. I know many mixes that were done with digital plugs mixed (granted as well as some analog) but to basically say that the digital plugins are useless..psh... btw this is a home recording forum. Not all of us can spend the dough on 100% analog equipment so we work with plugins that can be quite comparable to Good (maybe not the best) analog equipment.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

That's understandable until you've tried (HIGH QUALITY) outboard gear. If you think the digital stuff sounds good that's great, I know a lot of people who do. Personally, compared to the outboard gear, I can't stand them.

Some people think they can sound good, some people think they suck. Kinda hard to call that a "cold, hard fact" then; it's more your personal evaluation. #5 needs to be removed from your list.

G.

 

[zacanger]

Oh oh! I know the answer. It's neither. It's "spend the 1500 on a U87 and some cases of beer."

That is the key.

Get drunk, point the expensive mic at something (an oven, perhaps), and autotune it until it sounds pro. It's easier than you think.

This one knows what's up.

Just a note -- this is a HOME recording forum. Very few people here are going to go out and spend over a couple thousand dollars on mics, outboard gear, whatever. For a lot of us it's cheap and free software. Myself I do pretty good business using all freeware -- DAW, plugins, samplers and sequencers, all of it, all freeware. No, I'm not doing any high-profile work, but neither are most of the people on this forum.

 

[masteringhouse]

That's understandable until you've tried (HIGH QUALITY) outboard gear. If you think the digital stuff sounds good that's great, I know a lot of people who do. Personally, compared to the outboard gear, I can't stand them.

Hi Nameless and welcome to the asylum.

I agree in general with most of your comments(I've said similar things over the years here), but as we all know there are no rules in audio engineering only guidlelines. It would be nice to know who you are, if anything it will lend credence to your opinions with the background of your experience. As mentioned above there are several pros here that have no problem with it, posting without this info makes the original post that you made seem more like trolling or blowing off steam than lending helpful advice.

On topic, I have tried both high quality digital and analog gear. While in general I find analog more interesting, there are time when digital is very appropriate. Usually when transparency is required over character. Also there are certain types of processing that are better done in digital, like limiting. I really don't know of any analog limiter that can provide as good of a "look-ahead" feature as most high-end digital counterparts. We all have opinions on what works best, that's fine, but when dogma becomes offered as fact it's just another form of misinformation.

 

[flatfinger]

The real question is why spend 5-10k on "prosumer" gear , mix , pre-master , master and create the perfect 45mb .wav so you can ruin it by running through a crappy lossy codec so you can put it on my space so it can be ignored along with 10,000 other "masterpieces".
Let's face it guy's , it's all for the fun of it!!!!

( besides, some of these guy's let loose w/ some classic smack occassionally)

Welcome mysterious stranger, please be entertaining .

I love this place!!!!

 

[flatfinger]

Hi Nameless and welcome to the asylum........................................................................................................................................

Usually when transparency is required over character.

If you require a "transparent character" PM me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

when dogma becomes offered as fact it's just another form of misinformation.

There ya go! Beautiful!

Personally I think Nameless is Roger Nichols coming here in disguise and trying to acheive karmic balance by trashing the prosumer and indepnedant digital experiences because Don Fagan tore him a new guilt hole for buying up Elemental Audio.

G.

 

[masteringhouse]

There ya go! Beautiful!

Personally I think Nameless is Roger Nichols coming here in disguise and trying to acheive karmic balance by trashing the prosumer and indepnedant digital experiences because Don Fagan tore him a new guilt hole for buying up Elemental Audio.

G.

Hmm... I was wondering if it might be Fletcher, but he isn't afraid to to let people know who he is. With absolute certainty!

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Hmm... I was wondering if it might be Fletcher, but he isn't afraid to to let people know who he is. With absolute certainty!

Yeah, nobody who uses a picture of the Boston Strangler as his avatar is exactly loaded with modesty or stage fright .

And I don't really believe it's RN either; karma or not, he's not dumb enough to trash a class of product that he just spent millions on putting his own name on . I was just trying to make a sly point that there are people at the top of the pro pyramid that seem to think that at least some plugs are good enough to actually stake their reputation on.

I know you'll have to pry Eqium, Neodynium, and Finalis (or whatever he calls them now) out of my cold, dead, digital hands.

G.

 

[masteringhouse]

And I don't really believe it's RN either; karma or not, he's not dumb enough to trash a class of product that he just spent millions on putting his own name on . I was just trying to make a sly point that there are people at the top of the pro pyramid that seem to think that at least some plugs are good enough to actually stake their reputation on.

Doh, sorry long day G.

Oh and while John may be offering cofee, I'll hook ya up with some beers if you're out Philly way That goes for you too John!

 

[flatfinger]

I was just trying to make a sly point that there are people at the top of the pro pyramid that seem to think that at least some plugs are good enough to actually stake their reputation on.



G.

Well, Charles Dye is'nt going to get accussed of shying away from pluggs!!!

Is he in the pyramid scheme you mentioned??

 

[Newbie dude]

I keep reading these posts talking about people giving out shitty advice. Maybe it's just because I dont get advice on these boards enough to see shitty advice, but when ever I have asked for tips and suggestions on this website, its always been helpful.

As for the thing Nameles said about doing takes over and over and not putting problems aside and rushing to the next step, i believe he's dead on about that. That may just be my biggest problem.

That and I can't record or mix worth a shit

 

[masteringhouse]

As for the thing Nameles said about doing takes over and over and not putting problems aside and rushing to the next step, i believe he's dead on about that. That may just be my biggest problem.

I agree up to a point. You can really kill a performance if it has to be done ad nauseam. Sometimes it's better to leave the warts in rather than throwing out the excitement in the track, and/or record to another track and comp (i.e. fix) later. If it's being done for technical reasons, you should give the talent a break and get it fixed before having to do multiple takes.

An engineer friend of mine told me once that Bob Dylan walked into the recording studio, picked up the first mic that he saw lying around, and said "I'm ready to record". If the engineer waited until he picked a mic that he felt was more appropriate, Bobby wouldn't have been a happy camper, and would likely have lost some inspired tracks.

 

[chessrock]

I think it's funny that Nameless comes on here and acts like he's going to put the smack down on everyone by shining the cold, hard truth in everyone's faces.

Then he proceeds to list a bunch of stuff that's been said a million times in a million different ways.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Oh and while John may be offering cofee, I'll hook ya up with some beers if you're out Philly way That goes for you too John!

You got a deal. Gotta check out the new transporter room in person . Next time I head out to Delaware I'll make the side trip. Of course, if you come to Chi-town, you get pizza with the deal too

I agree up to a point. You can really kill a performance if it has to be done ad nauseam.

That's where the more I read the OP, the more problems I have with it. I agree with the kernal of truth inside each point he makes...in this case "it's all in the tracking". Or in the case of the plugs vs. iron, of course I'll take a Manley over a Kjerhaus. But the hyperbole stacked upon the points (plugs are worthless, track until your tape deck begs for mercy) is a bit much, to say the least, and actually dilutes both the truth and the impact of the points made.

G.

 

[masteringhouse]

Or in the case of the plugs vs. iron, of course I'll take a Manley over a Kjerhaus. But the hyperbole stacked upon the points (plugs are worthless, track until your tape deck begs for mercy) is a bit much, to say the least, and actually dilutes both the truth and the impact of the points made.
G.

True, also aren't the first two points a bit contradictory?

1. You will not get a pro sound recording amateur/decent musicians playing on amateur/decent instruments. The expensive studios get a 'pro' sound because only the pro musicians can afford it.

2. Gear is not nearly as important as you think

mmmm, pizza ...

 

[cello_pudding]

this thread has all the big guns...massive master, masterhouse, glen, ....where's ethan?