rayc
retroreprobate
ff,
I'm to blame for the lyrics.
I'm to blame for the lyrics.
M
moresound
Loud Sun Studios
M
moresound
Loud Sun Studios
Gabba gabba, we accept you, we accept you, one of us ..... Gabba gabba hey, gabba gabba hey!
G
Greg_L
Banned
That's a good one for sure. It's called "Pinhead".
Just listen to the first 3 Ramones albums. That'll tell you everything you need to know. If you can't see the light after that, you're a lost cause.
M
moresound
Loud Sun Studios
Rock and roll high school!
rayc
retroreprobate
As far as lyrics go The Ramones were pretty good at cartoon ghouliness and caricatures of dystopian stereo types - but then again they help create some of those stereotypes so maybe they weren't caricatures after all.
Chinese Rocks is pretty deep and worrying about going down to the basement brings to light the fears of many a kid.
The neo Fordian conservatism of Rock n Roll High School chimes with a natural adolescent rejection of the education system as well as the linkbetween Rock Fame and the assembly line of 70's/80's music as well as subsuming the subtext of escape from poverty/social awkwardness/mundanity/real life & employment through excellence/fame that underpins the motivation of so many people in the modern world be it as Soccer, Football, baseball or the more traditional Boxing and Pop options.
All of which is succinctly encapsualted in the refrain:
"Beat on the brat with a baseball bat, oh yeah."
Chinese Rocks is pretty deep and worrying about going down to the basement brings to light the fears of many a kid.
The neo Fordian conservatism of Rock n Roll High School chimes with a natural adolescent rejection of the education system as well as the linkbetween Rock Fame and the assembly line of 70's/80's music as well as subsuming the subtext of escape from poverty/social awkwardness/mundanity/real life & employment through excellence/fame that underpins the motivation of so many people in the modern world be it as Soccer, Football, baseball or the more traditional Boxing and Pop options.
All of which is succinctly encapsualted in the refrain:
"Beat on the brat with a baseball bat, oh yeah."
G
Greg_L
Banned
The Ramones were like an entire high school eco-system all in one band. Joey was the freaky geek, Dee Dee was the wastoid, Johnny was the jock bully, and Tommy was the sensible one. It's no wonder some of their early lyrics were so dark, cartoonish and funny. Some people were appalled by "I'm a nazi shotzie gonna fight for the fatherland". They didn't get the hilariousness of a NY Jew singing it. They didn't get songs like "53rd and 3rd" and how funny the idea is of being a boy prostitute for dope money and then killing your John to prove that you aint no fag. That's fucking hilarious to me.
YellowDwarf
Dismember
I remember when Bowie put out Station to Station: the rock years ended and I almost puked. I went to the show in Montreal on the Station to Station tour and was never so disappointed in my life - $7 for a 75 minute show plus a god awful movie! Thinking that he'd sold out to disco, I gave up on Bowie for the rest of his career.
I recently pulled out STS and listened to the lead track and realized what a genius Bowie was. In some ways, he was writing about the death of rock ... I can't stand much of the rest of that album, but at least Bowie regained some of my respect.
I recently pulled out STS and listened to the lead track and realized what a genius Bowie was. In some ways, he was writing about the death of rock ... I can't stand much of the rest of that album, but at least Bowie regained some of my respect.
M
moresound
Loud Sun Studios
When MTV came along as a marketing tool seemed as though everyone was selling out throwing up videos left and right.
mjbphotos
Moderator
Boston band called The Fools. They'd been around for years, doing original FUN songs, satirical, danceable, spoofs (Psycho Chicken done to the music of the Talking Heads' Psycho Killer comes to mind).
They got a record contract (2 albums), recorded their first album, which included many of these same originals, but polished. Included Psycho Killer 45rpm single in the album. Half the band cut their hair, dyed it blonde, then they did a national tour, supporting some big band (can't remember who). They called the album 'Sold Out' - they knew. The second album sucked, they went back to playing locally. They're still around 30 years later, same lead singer and lead guitarist.
They got a record contract (2 albums), recorded their first album, which included many of these same originals, but polished. Included Psycho Killer 45rpm single in the album. Half the band cut their hair, dyed it blonde, then they did a national tour, supporting some big band (can't remember who). They called the album 'Sold Out' - they knew. The second album sucked, they went back to playing locally. They're still around 30 years later, same lead singer and lead guitarist.
fat_fleet
Swollen Member
I remember that! "bukbukbuk buuuuck bukbukbukbuk buuuuuckbuk"....man, that was a long time ago.
S
smili
New member
I think it's likely a band's earlier stuff is more inspired - and with the grind of the music business they run out of new ideas or simply burn out - but may keep doing it because they tour to make a living. Some that come to mind:
Van Halen - I feel ran out of steam after 5150 or the album right after it. Not alot of new sounds.
Bon Jovi - I liked their most popular stuff Slippery When Wet / New Jersey - but I felt like the new sounds/ideas were gone after that
Joe Satriani - I was a huge fan when he broke out in the 80s - but it starts sounding samey after several albums
Steve Morse - same - he writes very cool instrumentals and has a unique identifiable sound - but there's not alot that distiguishes one album from the next.
Overall - I do think there's a lot of great music out there that never gets heard. And there's conversely alot of not so good stuff being produced by bands whose better ideas were in the past - but they got popular enough at one point in time to allow them to continue on.
just my $0.02
Van Halen - I feel ran out of steam after 5150 or the album right after it. Not alot of new sounds.
Bon Jovi - I liked their most popular stuff Slippery When Wet / New Jersey - but I felt like the new sounds/ideas were gone after that
Joe Satriani - I was a huge fan when he broke out in the 80s - but it starts sounding samey after several albums
Steve Morse - same - he writes very cool instrumentals and has a unique identifiable sound - but there's not alot that distiguishes one album from the next.
Overall - I do think there's a lot of great music out there that never gets heard. And there's conversely alot of not so good stuff being produced by bands whose better ideas were in the past - but they got popular enough at one point in time to allow them to continue on.
just my $0.02
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
I don't actually believe in the concept of 'selling out'. I personally think it's really quite chillingly and warpedly possessive of any fan of someone's music to think that they dictate what any band or artist must put out. One of the things I absolutely detested about British punk bands was so many of their attitudes of "these rock dinosaurs with their model wives & girlfriends, long concept albums, stadium rock excess and 12 year guitar solos, man, they lost touch !". I still can't see why people shouldn't get better on their instruments or explore concepts if they want to. If you don't want to move with the artist's changes, then don't buy their stuff. But to begrudge them hits {= making a living} or development or change, that's just churlish.
There have been loads of people whose music I've stopped liking but it wasn't because they sold out. It just wasn't to my taste. I tend to like particular periods of people. For instance, I like Dylan's '65~'66 and '79~'83 period, but not much else. I absolutely adore Def Leppard's first album "On through the night". But pretty much all they did after it was very syrupy to me. I thought the likes of Boston, Roadmaster and Styx {'75~'79} did that kind of music better and did much better songs. Queen too, in the 70s.
In jazz it's even harder because in general, many of the players that were recording up to the start of the 80s had been around for so long and had played on or recorded tons of albums. And I might only have liked one or maybe a track or two from an album. A jazzer might have a 15 year gap between stuff I think was good to the next set of hot stuff.
The Beatles and Led Zeppelin {discounting "The song remains..."} are the only two artists whose records I have all of from the official cannon before the endless years of compilations and extra stuff. Unless you count groups like the Nazz who only made 3 albums. I have 11 of Bruce Cockburn's albums spanning "Night vision" to "Stealing fire". With the Beatles, there's only 3 songs I don't like and with Zep, only one.
Thinking about it, I've never really followed anyone concurrently, "Oh, I must get their latest album !".
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
These are things that I've felt about most artists. I do feel some run out of steam, I do feel some just repeat themselves and sound
samey. Mind you, that's not a problem for me if the quality of the songs is just as good.
It's all subjective.
I'd also have to admit that there have been plenty that I just don't 'get'. Or is it that I just don't like them ? I haven't a clue what I like about a particular artist when I first like them other than the songs. It always begins and ends with the songs. Even if it takes a few years for someone to grow on me, it'll be because the songs have grown on me.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
I'll tell you one thing that does really tweak my gonads though ¬> reunions. It really irritates me when a band that's split up for years gets back together again. I have an almost allergic reaction to the notion of trying to recreate the past.
X
Xdrummer
New member
This is an interested thread. I've never really considered that any artist "sold out" (well maybe if they sold songs for beer commercials, etc.).
I appreciate that artists may get pressure from record lables to go in a certain direction, or probably more specifically use certain producers - which can take the music in a different direction. The reality is, once you sign that contract, you have certain financial obligations (and/or you simply don't want to go back to starving on the road in the back of a van with no heat).
As others have mentioned, I like follow the "progression" of artists from one recording to the next. I often try to analyze or speculate how changes were driven by the producer, vs. the natural progression (or regression) of the artists.
Selling out - I think it's a foolish, juvenile concept. Artists grown older, perhaps have families and have an obligation to support them. Does a 18 year old who gets a job to eat, have a roof, etc. sell out (by getting a paying job)???
I appreciate that artists may get pressure from record lables to go in a certain direction, or probably more specifically use certain producers - which can take the music in a different direction. The reality is, once you sign that contract, you have certain financial obligations (and/or you simply don't want to go back to starving on the road in the back of a van with no heat).
As others have mentioned, I like follow the "progression" of artists from one recording to the next. I often try to analyze or speculate how changes were driven by the producer, vs. the natural progression (or regression) of the artists.
Selling out - I think it's a foolish, juvenile concept. Artists grown older, perhaps have families and have an obligation to support them. Does a 18 year old who gets a job to eat, have a roof, etc. sell out (by getting a paying job)???
M
Michael Mason
New member
The Ramones handled their band as a money making venture, a business, the entire time. They will never be sellouts for that reason.
Now when a band like, say, Aerosmith, begins hiring outside writers and song doctors to keep the band in the spotlight, especially when they had previously been the primary writers of their music, THEN I can consider them sellouts with no qualms about it.
If you aren't making hits anymore, maybe it's time to give up the dream of trying to rule the world. You don't have to stop making music, but don't try to remain relevant if you just don't have it in you anymore. Let the song doctors and ghost writers have their 15 minutes of fame. They deserve it, not you.
Now when a band like, say, Aerosmith, begins hiring outside writers and song doctors to keep the band in the spotlight, especially when they had previously been the primary writers of their music, THEN I can consider them sellouts with no qualms about it.
If you aren't making hits anymore, maybe it's time to give up the dream of trying to rule the world. You don't have to stop making music, but don't try to remain relevant if you just don't have it in you anymore. Let the song doctors and ghost writers have their 15 minutes of fame. They deserve it, not you.
fat_fleet
Swollen Member
This conversation has really taken on a life of it's own, and that's totally cool.
But just to be clear, in my first post I was asking about albums that you've slagged off and then realized were pretty good years later. I'm interested in you maturing as a listener and your tastes changing. That's all. Party on Wayne!
But just to be clear, in my first post I was asking about albums that you've slagged off and then realized were pretty good years later. I'm interested in you maturing as a listener and your tastes changing. That's all. Party on Wayne!
G
Greg_L
Banned
I can't say my tastes have changed at all. I've certainly not matured, and I hope I never do. I've had people tell me stuff like "your musical tastes are juvenile". Lol. WTF? Am I supposed to switch to easy listening or something? At what age are you supposed to start liking and playing old folks music? I hope I die before I get there.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
people think if you get old you're supposed to adopt all the cliches of getting old.
Screw them ....... I'm a young rocker forever ...... well .....'till I die and everyone will be sad that I went so young!