C
chessrock
Banned
So how much would you charge the rest of us for one of you homemade neves?
I
imacgreg
New member
It depends, if it is legal I could probably have a large quantity of Circuit boards made. The most expensive part is the transformer and a decent power supply. I would have to see how much this current project is going to cost. If it works and it's cost effective a second will be on the way. I wouldn't be able to give an accurate response to your question, although I think the biggest factor is that I don't think I'd really wanna start making a lot of em. But,
I will think about once this project is done.
ian
I will think about once this project is done.
ian
wes480
New member
this is a really good thread. right now I have an Aardvark Q10...and I am fine with the pres on there...for now. But, I know it isn't the kind of quality that I want.
By the end of the year I am going to put 1,000-2,000 into a preamp...and use it for basically everything except drums (keep using the aardvark for that).
Looking at maybe Vintech, Neve, Avalon..not sure..but, I want something really good. 2 channels would be ideal (that way I could use it for recording stereo mics for acoustic instruments - and also for overheads of the drum kit). But, I don't know, havn't looked at the high end stuff to know what is out there...if there are 2 channels on several of the nicer ones etc.
But - I know thats the road I want to go. It's the kind of quality you just have to pay for.
By the end of the year I am going to put 1,000-2,000 into a preamp...and use it for basically everything except drums (keep using the aardvark for that).
Looking at maybe Vintech, Neve, Avalon..not sure..but, I want something really good. 2 channels would be ideal (that way I could use it for recording stereo mics for acoustic instruments - and also for overheads of the drum kit). But, I don't know, havn't looked at the high end stuff to know what is out there...if there are 2 channels on several of the nicer ones etc.
But - I know thats the road I want to go. It's the kind of quality you just have to pay for.
I
imacgreg
New member
wes480,
what kind of stuff do you record? That can help make a difference in what pre's you buy. If you are recording classical, a Neve may not be the best option, something like a Millennia Media might be a better choice. On the other hand if you are recording lots of drums the Neve's may be the way to go. What kind of mics are you using?? Are you an electronics guy? You could probably build a couple of Neves for way less than you can buy them.
Ian
what kind of stuff do you record? That can help make a difference in what pre's you buy. If you are recording classical, a Neve may not be the best option, something like a Millennia Media might be a better choice. On the other hand if you are recording lots of drums the Neve's may be the way to go. What kind of mics are you using?? Are you an electronics guy? You could probably build a couple of Neves for way less than you can buy them.
Ian
C
chessrock
Banned
Alright, imacgreg.
If you absolutely insist, then I guess I have no other choice but to let you build me a Neve. Let's just be careful so as not to get involved in one of those Behringer-type lawsuits (maybe we could call it the "ULTRA-Neve").
And I know you don't really have the time to crank a bunch of these out, so I got a solution:
We'll go to Radio Shack and buy a bunch of the transformers and flex capacitors and whatever other techno stuff you just mentioned. Then we'll start one of those geeky high school science competitions. We'll hand all of the parts and the "plans" over to about 100 or so engineering students. We'll award like $100 to the one who makes the best Neve. We can even have the winner get their picture taken with Brent Averil or whoever that dude is (he'll have to be wearing a dorky lab coat).
Then we'll divy up the best ones for ourselves, and sell the rest on eBay for the same price as a real one and people will still buy them even if we advertise them as ripoffs because ebayers ARE DUMB AS ROCKS!
I hope I didn't give Alan any ideas. Next thing you know, he'll be ditching the Chinese, and we'll have all these highschool dorks crankin' out C1's instead. That wouldn't be good.
If you absolutely insist, then I guess I have no other choice but to let you build me a Neve. Let's just be careful so as not to get involved in one of those Behringer-type lawsuits (maybe we could call it the "ULTRA-Neve").
And I know you don't really have the time to crank a bunch of these out, so I got a solution:
We'll go to Radio Shack and buy a bunch of the transformers and flex capacitors and whatever other techno stuff you just mentioned. Then we'll start one of those geeky high school science competitions. We'll hand all of the parts and the "plans" over to about 100 or so engineering students. We'll award like $100 to the one who makes the best Neve. We can even have the winner get their picture taken with Brent Averil or whoever that dude is (he'll have to be wearing a dorky lab coat).
Then we'll divy up the best ones for ourselves, and sell the rest on eBay for the same price as a real one and people will still buy them even if we advertise them as ripoffs because ebayers ARE DUMB AS ROCKS!
I hope I didn't give Alan any ideas. Next thing you know, he'll be ditching the Chinese, and we'll have all these highschool dorks crankin' out C1's instead. That wouldn't be good.
I
imacgreg
New member
The funny thing is that I AM a high school engineering student!!!
Ha, I win...
Ian
Ha, I win...
Ian
C
chessrock
Banned
Alright Ian, so I take back all those "dorky" comments, okay?
Anyway, why don't you make it a class project? You can send all of the entries over to me. I'll test them all out and declare a winner. I keep one . . . or maybe two or three . . . for my troubles, and the rest you can sell on ebay to fund a class trip or something.
What do you think?
Anyway, why don't you make it a class project? You can send all of the entries over to me. I'll test them all out and declare a winner. I keep one . . . or maybe two or three . . . for my troubles, and the rest you can sell on ebay to fund a class trip or something.
What do you think?
I
imacgreg
New member
Chessrock
It's a good idea, although I wouldn't make it a class project. I have a feeling we'd get maybe two good ones from the responsible kids in the class, the rest would be made the night before at 1:00 in the morning! Anyway, it is a good idea, it wouldn't be that hard to make five or six myself, the problem is that I don't have the funds to get the stuff together to do that. I could possibly get my school to fund it but that might take forever and they aren't real friendly with the electronics program. (but if it was football...) It is also a pain to make the circuit boards, I am taking all of today trying to get two or three made.
Here's the breakdown of the costs:
1) Circuit Board- Doesn't cost much, just time consuming unless I'm making a few. (~$10)
2) Transformers- The most expensive parts ($90)
3) Electronics Parts- Depends on quantity ($20-30)
4) Hardware/Power Supply- XLR, 1/4", case, pwr supply (~$50-70)
Total Cost??
For one I would think in the $200 range. If more were built at the same time the parts/circuitboard cost could be lower. I also wanna build one first and compare it against my bosses real 1272's before I commit to building any for someone else.
Hope someone's interested in this...
Ian
It's a good idea, although I wouldn't make it a class project. I have a feeling we'd get maybe two good ones from the responsible kids in the class, the rest would be made the night before at 1:00 in the morning! Anyway, it is a good idea, it wouldn't be that hard to make five or six myself, the problem is that I don't have the funds to get the stuff together to do that. I could possibly get my school to fund it but that might take forever and they aren't real friendly with the electronics program. (but if it was football...) It is also a pain to make the circuit boards, I am taking all of today trying to get two or three made.
Here's the breakdown of the costs:
1) Circuit Board- Doesn't cost much, just time consuming unless I'm making a few. (~$10)
2) Transformers- The most expensive parts ($90)
3) Electronics Parts- Depends on quantity ($20-30)
4) Hardware/Power Supply- XLR, 1/4", case, pwr supply (~$50-70)
Total Cost??
For one I would think in the $200 range. If more were built at the same time the parts/circuitboard cost could be lower. I also wanna build one first and compare it against my bosses real 1272's before I commit to building any for someone else.
Hope someone's interested in this...
Ian
alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
chessrock said:
The only idea I have is to run from this one as far as possible. Can you imagine the liability issue when your house burns down because this high school electronic club built you a product that is not UL tested and approved.
Have fun with this boys, I would not touch it with a 10' poll.
No offense to the hobby guys in high school, but you better think of the issues before you copy gear and sell it. You may end up in some serious trouble.
Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
I
imacgreg
New member
Alan,
I can definately see some houses burning if any of the kids in my class tried building something that had to plug into the wall! I don't think it is going to be realistic for anyone, especially me, to build a large quantity of these preamps to sell them. If one was interested though, what would the patent issues be? Is the Neve cicuit old enough that it can be copied freely? How do companies like Vintech/Bretn Averill make the 1272s', etc? Are they using actual Neve parts or are they making their own? Anyway, you want one Alan?? I'll trade you one for a C1 and a VTP-1!!
Ian
Alan,
(I was that high school dork wearing the Millennia Badge who met you at NAMM a while back.)
I can definately see some houses burning if any of the kids in my class tried building something that had to plug into the wall! I don't think it is going to be realistic for anyone, especially me, to build a large quantity of these preamps to sell them. If one was interested though, what would the patent issues be? Is the Neve cicuit old enough that it can be copied freely? How do companies like Vintech/Bretn Averill make the 1272s', etc? Are they using actual Neve parts or are they making their own? Anyway, you want one Alan?? I'll trade you one for a C1 and a VTP-1!!
Ian
Alan,
(I was that high school dork wearing the Millennia Badge who met you at NAMM a while back.)
alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
Ian,
The patent is not the issue. All you have to do is change some values and components, and your there. Just make sure the changes are not drastic, otherwise the unit is different, just like Vintech and Averill is different than the original.
It just goes deeper than that Ian if you sell or trade anything. Anytime you try to sell, trade, barder, whatever you want to call it, there is a liability issue that goes back to the manufacturer. That is why you have to have insurance and UL ratings done. Just because someone uses a UL, or CE rated supply in a unit one builds, does not mean the unit conforms to or is approved by UL or CE. So...if somethin does happen via fire, shock, or other trouble, you as the builder are subject to a lawsuit. If it is rated, the UL backs you up.
Would I trade for one...yes, as long as you have had it tested and approved by UL. Sorry to be anal over this, but everyone needs to be careful and watch their ass!
Sorry I don't remember you Ian, I meet a lot of people, but I am sure we will meet again.
Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
The patent is not the issue. All you have to do is change some values and components, and your there. Just make sure the changes are not drastic, otherwise the unit is different, just like Vintech and Averill is different than the original.
It just goes deeper than that Ian if you sell or trade anything. Anytime you try to sell, trade, barder, whatever you want to call it, there is a liability issue that goes back to the manufacturer. That is why you have to have insurance and UL ratings done. Just because someone uses a UL, or CE rated supply in a unit one builds, does not mean the unit conforms to or is approved by UL or CE. So...if somethin does happen via fire, shock, or other trouble, you as the builder are subject to a lawsuit. If it is rated, the UL backs you up.
Would I trade for one...yes, as long as you have had it tested and approved by UL. Sorry to be anal over this, but everyone needs to be careful and watch their ass!
Sorry I don't remember you Ian, I meet a lot of people, but I am sure we will meet again.
Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
C
chessrock
Banned
lol.
I hope you guys didn't thing I was serious. In some twisted, demented, parallel universe, I probably have an alter-ego who would jump all over the opportunity.
But then there are probably people who have had this idea looong before I mentioned anything. If nothing else, though, it might be fun to give it a stab. Is this something that you would recommend that I stay away from and leave to an expert, or do you think someone like myself with limited experience and knowlege of electronics could actually put one of these things together?
I don't mean sell it or anything, but do you think I could safely make a useable one for myself in my spare time? Remember, I know very little about this sort of thing.
I hope you guys didn't thing I was serious. In some twisted, demented, parallel universe, I probably have an alter-ego who would jump all over the opportunity.
But then there are probably people who have had this idea looong before I mentioned anything. If nothing else, though, it might be fun to give it a stab. Is this something that you would recommend that I stay away from and leave to an expert, or do you think someone like myself with limited experience and knowlege of electronics could actually put one of these things together?
I don't mean sell it or anything, but do you think I could safely make a useable one for myself in my spare time? Remember, I know very little about this sort of thing.
I
imacgreg
New member
Chessrock,
I knew you were kidding around. I don't think it would be all that easy for someone w/o electronic experience to build a 1272. Not saying that you should never consider it, you just might want to do something easier first. I started with making copies of the original fuzz face and moved on from there.
ian
I knew you were kidding around. I don't think it would be all that easy for someone w/o electronic experience to build a 1272. Not saying that you should never consider it, you just might want to do something easier first. I started with making copies of the original fuzz face and moved on from there.
ian
K
Katie
New member
building a Neve
hey imacgreg,
where did you get the plans for the Neve preamp? can you post a link for others who might like a crack at building one. Is there a parts list and schematic? What are you using? I've built the PAIA Tube preamp. thanks,
Katie
hey imacgreg,
where did you get the plans for the Neve preamp? can you post a link for others who might like a crack at building one. Is there a parts list and schematic? What are you using? I've built the PAIA Tube preamp. thanks,
Katie
I
imacgreg
New member
Here's the place for the schematic of the card:
http://www.commonname.com/english/search/PSEngine.asp?userid=0&engine=yahoo&query=neve 1272
I was kinda confused for a while on exactly what the 1272 was and for those who aren't sure either I'll try to explain it:
Neve used different cards to do different things in their modules, which could be plugged into consoles. Some cards were eq cards, some amplifiers, etc. The 1272 used just one amplifier card, the BA283AV. What people have done is buy the normal 1272's, which were just made to take a line signal and amplify it, and they have converted them to mic preamps. In order to make a 1272 "mic pre" you not only need to build the BA283 card, but you also need the input/output transformers, a power supply, a form of phantom power (if needed), and a couple of resistors and caps that go outside of the card. The place to look for this "modified" schematic is JLM Audio: http://www.jlmaudio.com
I'm building the 1272 SW Mod
Anyone please correct me if I'm wrong on any of the above rambling,
Ian
http://www.commonname.com/english/search/PSEngine.asp?userid=0&engine=yahoo&query=neve 1272
I was kinda confused for a while on exactly what the 1272 was and for those who aren't sure either I'll try to explain it:
Neve used different cards to do different things in their modules, which could be plugged into consoles. Some cards were eq cards, some amplifiers, etc. The 1272 used just one amplifier card, the BA283AV. What people have done is buy the normal 1272's, which were just made to take a line signal and amplify it, and they have converted them to mic preamps. In order to make a 1272 "mic pre" you not only need to build the BA283 card, but you also need the input/output transformers, a power supply, a form of phantom power (if needed), and a couple of resistors and caps that go outside of the card. The place to look for this "modified" schematic is JLM Audio: http://www.jlmaudio.com
I'm building the 1272 SW Mod
Anyone please correct me if I'm wrong on any of the above rambling,
Ian
J
jet-rocker
New member
Alan...Gimme a break
The kids in high school. He's got some serious balls and ideas.
He'll probably learn a lot and have fun. I seriously doubt he'll burn down the house. And if he does.... well then shame on me .
It even looks like he'll have a certain amount of supervision (if he's comparing it to his boses item.)
Was your childhood really that sterile? I used to blow outhouses up. This sounds a hell of a lot more productive to me.
Don't scare someone away from being creative.
Good luck
Imacgreg. I hope your pre kicks ass. Let us know how it goes.
Do be careful with electricity though. I've got some bad memories of tube amps and computer monitors that almost took me to the other side.
-Jett
The kids in high school. He's got some serious balls and ideas.
He'll probably learn a lot and have fun. I seriously doubt he'll burn down the house. And if he does.... well then shame on me .
It even looks like he'll have a certain amount of supervision (if he's comparing it to his boses item.)Was your childhood really that sterile? I used to blow outhouses up. This sounds a hell of a lot more productive to me.
Don't scare someone away from being creative.
Good luck
Imacgreg. I hope your pre kicks ass. Let us know how it goes.
Do be careful with electricity though. I've got some bad memories of tube amps and computer monitors that almost took me to the other side.
-Jett
alanhyatt
PMI Audio Group
Re: Alan...Gimme a break
Hey, I am not on the kid’s case, I am just warning him. If he wants to do it, and you want to buy it...fine by me, but he isn’t blowin up outhouses here. I did a lot of stuff when I was kid with electronics, but I usually screwed them up, but I did not copy them and resell them for money.
When you get to knocking off goods and selling them without any certifications, that is a different story. Why you ask? Here is why.
What are you goanna do if you use this eq and a faulty part throws a 30Hz tone and blows your woofer, or an 18KHz blast takes out your tweeters. Or better yet, a faulty phantom circuit that blows up your nice new C1...err, I mean Brauner Velvet. So you send the mic to Brauner, and after inspection they say... sorry, the unit was blown by a large voltage surge of a mic pre...no warranty!
Who Pays for That? Does Ian have a backup plan to pay or fix this? Will he take it back like I do, or another manufacturer will...Ian, do you have the money to pay for these goods, because you know the customers are goanna blame your unit...because that is what they do.
Hey Jet, I don't mean to be on the kid’s case, I just am offering him some aged wisdom from someone who has seen it all before. I am not trying to kill his ego. If he has a business with insurance and money to back him on a product...great. It’s like smuggling in dope...be prepared to pay the price if something goes wrong.
Maybe nothing will happen...then again, who knows, I may be overly paranoid, but I have seen nightmares with faulty equipment. Hey, as long as you’re ok with it, then I have no room to bitch...
Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
jet-rocker said:The kids in high school. He's got some serious balls and ideas.
He'll probably learn a lot and have fun. I seriously doubt he'll burn down the house. And if he does.... well then shame on me .
Was your childhood really that sterile? I used to blow outhouses up. This sounds a hell of a lot more productive to me.
Don't scare someone away from being creative.
Good luck
Imacgreg. I hope your pre kicks ass. Let us know how it goes.
Do be careful with electricity though. I've got some bad memories of tube amps and computer monitors that almost took me to the other side.
-Jett
Hey, I am not on the kid’s case, I am just warning him. If he wants to do it, and you want to buy it...fine by me, but he isn’t blowin up outhouses here. I did a lot of stuff when I was kid with electronics, but I usually screwed them up, but I did not copy them and resell them for money.
When you get to knocking off goods and selling them without any certifications, that is a different story. Why you ask?
Here is why. What are you goanna do if you use this eq and a faulty part throws a 30Hz tone and blows your woofer, or an 18KHz blast takes out your tweeters. Or better yet, a faulty phantom circuit that blows up your nice new C1...err, I mean Brauner Velvet. So you send the mic to Brauner, and after inspection they say... sorry, the unit was blown by a large voltage surge of a mic pre...no warranty!
Who Pays for That? Does Ian have a backup plan to pay or fix this? Will he take it back like I do, or another manufacturer will...Ian, do you have the money to pay for these goods, because you know the customers are goanna blame your unit...because that is what they do.
Hey Jet, I don't mean to be on the kid’s case, I just am offering him some aged wisdom from someone who has seen it all before. I am not trying to kill his ego. If he has a business with insurance and money to back him on a product...great. It’s like smuggling in dope...be prepared to pay the price if something goes wrong.
Maybe nothing will happen...then again, who knows, I may be overly paranoid, but I have seen nightmares with faulty equipment. Hey, as long as you’re ok with it, then I have no room to bitch...
Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
jimistone
long standing member
"if you like the joe meek sound"
i see that comment alot. To my ears (and i think they're pretty good) the "joe meek sound" is actually the optical compresser and the meekquilizer eq. When I use the mic pre with the compresser and eq shut off, the mic pre is very transparent, not a colored sound. Also, the vc6q isn't tube....which is OK. You have a ton of headroom and when you crank the pre, you don't get tube saturation (distortion) as the level goes up. I think tube saturation sounds good.....but so does the opti. comp. and the meek 4 band eq. Either way your coloring the sound.
i see that comment alot. To my ears (and i think they're pretty good) the "joe meek sound" is actually the optical compresser and the meekquilizer eq. When I use the mic pre with the compresser and eq shut off, the mic pre is very transparent, not a colored sound. Also, the vc6q isn't tube....which is OK. You have a ton of headroom and when you crank the pre, you don't get tube saturation (distortion) as the level goes up. I think tube saturation sounds good.....but so does the opti. comp. and the meek 4 band eq. Either way your coloring the sound.
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I
imacgreg
New member
Jet-rocker,
Thanks for the support, I sure hope it sounds great too. (although blowing up an outhouse sounds like a lot of fun...). i'm not planning on copying and selling them (i'm no behringer), I was just responding to chessrock's questions about "if" I did. Either way, when I finish, I'll let you guys know how it turns out.
Ian
Thanks for the support, I sure hope it sounds great too. (although blowing up an outhouse sounds like a lot of fun...). i'm not planning on copying and selling them (i'm no behringer), I was just responding to chessrock's questions about "if" I did. Either way, when I finish, I'll let you guys know how it turns out.
Ian
J
jet-rocker
New member
I see where you're coming from Alan.
We're cool.
-Jett
We're cool.
-Jett