The Analogue - Digital War (mixing consoles)

  • Thread starter Thread starter tyler657recpro
  • Start date Start date
tyler657recpro

tyler657recpro

Member
What are the pros and cons of each for low end live mixing consoles, i.e. 2 Yamaha 01v96 strapped together, and Allen & Heath ML3000 or others which may be suggested. We are undergoing a rennovation in our church and I have been asked to put up an argument against the digital consoles. So fire away.
 
It probably isn't a horrible idea for a church. Its probably pretty good bang for buck (with included effects and such) and the liabilities of digital mixing probably won't matter.

I don't know if using a digital board live introduces some latency. That might be a bad thing...

Take care,
Chris
 
Yeah, its mostly quality that I'm worried about. Were not too worried about money. We just bought two $12k projectors for a chruch that seats like 1000 people, and not because one wasn't enough, but because we wanted it to be symetrical or something. Personally, I think it was a waste.

The benefits of digital I see, are price, and that everything basically comes in one piece. Personally, I like having outboard stuff which I can change and am not commited to using just whatever's there. And it's not like we need compression on every channel. The spectrum analyzer seems like a good idea, but we could buy one of those separately if we really needed it. The parts don't really age the same way either. They're more consistent throughout their lifetime, but basically you end up with something that's outdated within a year.

With analogue (my personal preference), sure it costs more, but you get more versatility with the ways you can set everything up, i'd say, and it just sounds better. Most people probably wouldn't notice the difference, but I would. And it doesn't get outdated!

It also seems like if we added other outboard gear to the digital console, it wouldn't be a good thing, since there would be another D/A/D conversion going on there. I don't like the idea of using two mixers strapped together either. Maybe there's a way to do it digitally and you don't get all the gain structure problems, but I'd still much rather have one big console.

I dunno, these are my thoughts on it right now.
 
Chris Shaeffer said:
It probably isn't a horrible idea for a church. Its probably pretty good bang for buck (with included effects and such) and the liabilities of digital mixing probably won't matter.

I don't know if using a digital board live introduces some latency. That might be a bad thing...

Take care,
Chris
Huh...latency? I don't think so man.

Go analog just for the simplicity. If you get some new operators they won't need to dive into a manual to find the EQ and busses.
 
jake-owa said:
Go analog just for the simplicity. If you get some new operators they won't need to dive into a manual to find the EQ and busses.

I don't think a 15 bus analogue board is THAT simple. Still, you probably have a point, but I dont think it would be a deciding factor.
 
The low cost of digital mixers is a bit misleading. You usually have much less analog i/o on a stock digital board and you pay alot to get extra analog inputs. If this is for a live situation I would say go analog. Digital boards have an advantage if you need to do a lot of automation for well planned productions but if you need to do complicated mixes with multiple monitor feeds, etc then it's hard to beat the flexibility of analog mixers especially when things go wrong half way through a performance.
 
damn your pasteurs put in overtime w/ there pimping...

tyler657recpro said:
Yeah, its mostly quality that I'm worried about. Were not too worried about money. We just bought two $12k projectors for a
 
tyler657recpro said:
I don't think a 15 bus analogue board is THAT simple. Still, you probably have a point, but I dont think it would be a deciding factor.
Never seen a 15 buss analog board in my life. I have a 16 buss board and I can tell you that if it was digital it would far more difficult to operate. I will take the relative ease of my 16 buss analog board over my 8 buss digital mixer any day of the week.
 
jake-owa said:
Never seen a 15 buss analog board in my life. I have a 16 buss board and I can tell you that if it was digital it would far more difficult to operate. I will take the relative ease of my 16 buss analog board over my 8 buss digital mixer any day of the week.

Hey..you don't know the people at my church. I'm told they're just operators, but they can't even work the patchbay.
 
tyler657recpro said:
Hey..you don't know the people at my church. I'm told they're just operators, but they can't even work the patchbay.
All the more reason to not give them embedded menus to scour. Better to just set everything up and label faders. That way it's just a matter fo pushing up a fader or muting a channel.
 
The complexity of using a digital mixer is really not good in a live situation. Which is not to disparage your or your operators abilities. However, you'll spend a *ton* of time troubleshooting a digital board, have a much longer setup, will have egg on your face more than once, and will get REALLY frustrated paging through menus when all you want to do is turn up a send or some other seemingly transparent function. For live definitely go analog.

I agree with the point made earlier about price, there are hidden costs with digital mixers. Seems like you end up spending lots on optional cards, upgrades, etc. The price difference is really not that great.

Also, there IS latency on digital boards, and if you get into heavy routing of signals to outboard processors it can add up after a 2-3 trips through the board.

I have a couple digital boards and have never really fallen in love with them. Really more of a pain in the butt than anything else. The recall is nice, no question, and the painless routing in and out of my DAW is tremendous. But really I'd rather have a good analog board if I could afford one.

Sounds like you are leaning toward the analog board, and I think your instincts are absolutely correct.
 
Analog is the way to go unless you can spend some serous money on a decent sounding digital console like Sony DMXR100 ( $10,000 - $12,000 US), but I would still go with something like Midas Venice. Remember in Digital Mixer one circuit goes bad and everything shuts down and you're screwed till the tech arrives to fix it. Analog - disconnect the bad channel and off you go. What's your budget and channels/busses requirement?
 
I believe were looking basically anywhere in four digits for price range. And I'd say we need about 32 to 40 channels and 8 bus at least, preferably more.

Personally, I like analogue boards way more. I think I can get it together enough so that I can convince the church board that analogue is the way to go. This raises a new question tho.

Which one???
 
Why are they so set on a digital board? Does that say "progress" to them? Or is there a compelling need for recallibility?
 
The TASCAM DM24 is one of the cheaper 8 buss 32 input mixers around. I've heard good things about it but I believe a lot of the I/O is digital as well so this could limit your connectivity to many analog sources.

Next step up in price would be the soundcraft spirit 324L which is actually only a 4 buss. Of course there's always the Beh..I can't even say it. Stay away from that if you can.
 
Here's a list of a few digital mixers available.


Behringer DDX3216 Fully Automated 32-Channel 16-Bus 24-Bit Digital Mixing Console £993.99
Mackie D8B 24-Channel Digital Mixing Console (Expandable to 56-Channels) £4999.99
Roland VM7200 ROLAND VM7200 MIX PROCESSOR £2599.99
Roland VMC7200 ROLAND VMC7200 24CH CONTROLLER £2959.99
Soundcraft 328XD 32 Input Digital Mixing Console £2499.99
Soundcraft Spirit 328 8-Buss Digital Mixing Console £1399.99
Tascam TMD-4000 And Meterbridge 32-Channel £1499.99
Yamaha 01V96 24-Channel Digital Mixing Console (Expandable to 40-Channels) £1699.99
Yamaha 02R96 Digital Mixing Console 24-bit £7499.99
Yamaha DM2000 96 kHz Digital Production Console £16999.99
Yamaha DME32


Sorry about the eropean prices.
 
Tons of options on a used market for under $10,000 consoles. But the main question world be new or old, old gives you that vintage sound, but also comes with maintains issues, so that's another expense that you would have to deal with. The best bet is narrow your list and find some local studios which carry these brands and can let you sit on a session with their console(s).

go to this user forum, tons of good guys who use analog consoles on daily basis.

http://www.recordingconsoles.net
 
Back
Top