That's not a kick drum!

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this is kinda related so i'll throw it in.

did a recording a while back. everything was fine, but one track didn't have enough of a 'stompy' sound for the band. the kick was kinda tight and they wanted boom...but a natural sound rather than constructing some synth or something.


so the drummer weighs in the next day in a transit van with a full blown water trough (thick metal open top box, about 6'x4'x4') and a rubber mallet.

it ended up going into this track


when you know about it, and your listening for it, it could be a bit much, but if you listen to the track without it, you definitely miss that boom!
 
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I agree, the "boom" does fit in that mix.

I can't understand the dicotomy that has developed over this little thing. Here's a "why" question for you: WHY oppose this sort of thing?? If there is a call for a certain sound that a "real" instrument can't deliver, there is NOTHING wrong with finding an alternative source for that sound.

Or, you could be so rigid you might NEVER use ANYTHING that is not sold at your favorite music store. A PILLOW in your kick drum? Oh,my God, NO! Drums too resonate? Are you putting TAPE on those heads? What's WRONG with you?? Those drums are SUPPOSED to sound like that, and if you MUST change that sound, do the decent thing and SPEND MONEY on Moon Gels! And don't you DARE rap those sticks on the RIM- hit the damn drum head, play that thing like it's intended to be played!!
 
stevieb said:
I agree, the "boom" does fit in that mix.

I can't understand the dicotomy that has developed over this little thing. Here's a "why" question for you: WHY oppose this sort of thing?? If there is a call for a certain sound that a "real" instrument can't deliver, there is NOTHING wrong with finding an alternative source for that sound.

Or, you could be so rigid you might NEVER use ANYTHING that is not sold at your favorite music store. A PILLOW in your kick drum? Oh,my God, NO! Drums too resonate? Are you putting TAPE on those heads? What's WRONG with you?? Those drums are SUPPOSED to sound like that, and if you MUST change that sound, do the decent thing and SPEND MONEY on Moon Gels! And don't you DARE rap those sticks on the RIM- hit the damn drum head, play that thing like it's intended to be played!!
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Then why use instruments at all? Hell, why even bother learning how to play? You don't need real drums. Suitcases and trash cans do the same thing! Who needs a guitar? Just use a shoebox with rubber bands streched across the top! :laughings:
 
From a "classical" perspective, that's what all we "folk" musicians are doing, anyway...

FRETS on a stringed instrument? You lazybones- get your fingering intonation right and get rid of those crutches you call "frets."

Cymbals on a STAND? Horrors! Everybody- well, everybody who is a real MUSICIAN- knows you play cymbals a a pair, each hand-held.

SINGLE reeds? Pul-eese!

And don't EVEN get me started on ELECTRONIC KEYBOARDS...


It's a continum. Music is not an instrument, it's a SOUND, or a collection of sounds. Is a glass harp, made of stemware wine glasses, any less a viable source of music than a Steinway, or a Kerzweil? Is a cigar-box guitar (there's your rubber-bands!) any less a guitar than a Martin D-38 or a Les Paul? Is a fiddle player who plays "by ear" any less a musician than a symphony violinist?

If Steenamaroo's band were performing with a symphonic orchestra, there's a good chance his water-tank boom drum would be replaced with a BIG bass drum, because many orchestras have a big bass drum that can make that boom- but NOT because the water tank is NOT an "instrument."

Musical instruement (noun). Any of various devices or contrivances that can be used to produce musical tones or sounds

Drum (noun) a musical percussion instrument; usually consists of a hollow cylinder with a membrane stretched across each end
 
stevieb said:
I agree, the "boom" does fit in that mix.

I can't understand the dicotomy that has developed over this little thing. Here's a "why" question for you: WHY oppose this sort of thing?? If there is a call for a certain sound that a "real" instrument can't deliver, there is NOTHING wrong with finding an alternative source for that sound.

Or, you could be so rigid you might NEVER use ANYTHING that is not sold at your favorite music store. A PILLOW in your kick drum? Oh,my God, NO! Drums too resonate? Are you putting TAPE on those heads? What's WRONG with you?? Those drums are SUPPOSED to sound like that, and if you MUST change that sound, do the decent thing and SPEND MONEY on Moon Gels! And don't you DARE rap those sticks on the RIM- hit the damn drum head, play that thing like it's intended to be played!!
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Jesus...are you finished? Good. Now take a Valium and relax. You work with kids??? :rolleyes:

The only "opposition" to this comes from the fact that, weather anyone wants to admit it or not, 99.99999999% of the time people will use a suitcase or some other stupid thing just so they can say THE USED A SUITCASE OR SOME OTHER STUPID THING. If a suitcase is the sound someone is REALLY looking for, then knock yourself out. But, since that's probably the case about.00000001% of the time, then hitting a suitcase is ALMOST ALWAYS just plain stupid. Other than fact that you can tell people "That's me playing a suitcase". WOW!
 
RAMI said:
J...since that's probably the (suit)case...
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(Just had to point out the obviously unintended pun...)

My turn to say "wow!" Can't you recognize a rhetorical argument when you see one? If you read (or re-read) my post after the one you quoted, you might see that a bit better.

JFTR, I am not trying to rag on anyone here- to my mind, this is all just a spirited discussion. But, really, I have yet to see a well-put argument AGAINST using "non-instruments," to oppose or refute my arguments FOR them.

Come on, give it your best shot!:p

Oh, and I disagree with your assertion that things like suitcases are almost always used so the musician can say he used a whatever. The two examples I cited, by Browne's drummer, and mine (my, MY, I am in good company, eh?) were both driven by necessity, not novelty. IF your stats were correct, that would mean the next 19,999,998 (that's 19 MILLION, NINE HUNDRED NINETY-NINE THOUSAND, NINE HUNDRED NINETY-EIGHT) times were done for the novelty of it. If that were true, somebody, somewhere, would have used a suit case, JUST FOR THE NOVELTY OF IT, on average of about once every two months (actually, every 69.13 days,) since 1977.

Er, I don't think so...
 
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This thread started out silly and got sillier

Every once in a while somebody starts a thread here about getting the perfect sound on their kick drum. There are all sorts of suggestions from different types of dampening, different heads. how to tune, thickness of shell, hardware, reso head on or off, yada yada. Everybody chimes in with suggestions on how to get that ultimate sound right down to choice of mics and mic placement. It would seem that none of us are completely satisfied with the sound
of our kick drums unless a great deal of time setting up, tuning, mics are all in the absolute correct order. Countless pages are devoted to this one topic here.

And now we have this stupid thread that says:
I got this old valise and hooked up a pedal to it and use it as a kick drum and it works. And when I open it up, I gots plentya room for my old snare two cymbals and a pastrami sandwich on Rye! Y'all aughta try it.

What are you, on crack? or shine?

and Steveb, I'm sure you could make anything work. I saw a really good guitarist pick up a piece of crap $75 guitar in a music store and made it sing................. but he didn't buy it and he probably wouldn't. Just because you can make music on a piece of crap doesn't mean that you should. My question again is: Why?
Is this going to give you something that you can't get any other way?
Things that have been introduced by folk musicians like washboards, cajons, etc. have been perfected by musical instrument manufacturers and a more reliable tempered instruments have been made. Why would they do that if an old wooden box or an old washboard from an antique shop was better?
I play a lot of very old fashioned folkloric instruments. The drums that I buy are very expensive because they are made by master makers. I play hand drums and flute-like instruments (ney and kaval) as well as double reed mizmers and zurna. You can buy cheap ones and they will work to a degree, but if you have an ear, you'll want a more masterfully made instrument with the parts properly lined up and in good tune, otherwise what you'll get may not be good music but a novelty act. Oh listen......... there's actually playing a recognizable song on those crude things...... but the audience won't be listening to it as music. It'll be barking dogs singing "Jingle Bells"! :p
 
This stevieb character is obviously not a drummer, or knows anything about drums.
 
RAMI said:
So, in other words, a bass drum would have been used if it was possible.

Thank you and have a nice day. :)
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Your comment proves nothing. A waste of breath to say it, a waste of space to type it, a waste of my time to read it.
 
Rimshot said:
...Things that have been introduced by folk musicians like washboards, cajons, etc. have been perfected by musical instrument manufacturers and a more reliable tempered instruments have been made. Why would they do that if an old wooden box or an old washboard from an antique shop was better?
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Putting aside the reality that the kind of drums we are talking about are NOT "tempered" in the musical sense of the word (Tuned to temperament. Used of a scale, an interval, semitone, or intonation.)..., I am not sure who the "they" you refer to is- if it's the instrument manufacturers, well, "they" would "do that" because they can't make any money if people can buy their musical instruments way cheaper. Better, from a business standpoint but not necessarily from a musical standpoint, to get folks to spend more money. That is the real reason a manufacturer does it, and to believe otherwise is to engage in a high degree of naivete'.

And Greg, if you can't refrain from personal attacks, you are not the man I truly thought you were. Sorry if I thought too highly of you.
 
What's with the musical instrument puritanism all of a sudden?

As far as I am concerned, a musical instrument is anything that can be hit, rubbed or blown to make the specific sound that you want to include in your composition. Additionally, I am not averse to using devices that make their own sound. So I have compositions that include cats purring, lawn mowers, wineglasses, knives . . . and omg . . . suitcases!
 
stevieb said:
Your comment proves nothing. A waste of breath to say it, a waste of space to type it, a waste of my time to read it.
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My comment, and your lack of response to it proves that you know I'm right.

Weird how you went from being long-winded and verbose to, all of a sudden, not having anything to counter what I just said....after YOU threw out a challenge with
Come on, give it your best shot!
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Some people just like to argue for the sake of arguing...Until they lose the argument, and then suddenly they pretend to take the "high-road" and withdraw. Phhhht.........I can see right through you. That was pretty lame, Stevie Boy.
 
"This message is hidden because Greg_L is on your ignore list."

You seem to be replying to me. Can't remember exactly why you're on the list, but I tend to trust my past self to have made a prudent decision. Not trying to be a dick, just thought I'd save you the trouble (in case you ARE replying to me, since you appear directly below me a couple times in this thread; if not, my bad and nevermind)
 
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