telephone wire - with Greg_L on drums

[robgreen]

Great to see this one getting a makeover Pete - I always really liked your original version.

It had never struck me before that there was anything small sounding about the original mix, but it does sound so in comparison with this new one - so you've made a big improvement for me. Guitar parts and tones sound great throughout and the arrangement still works for me as a whole. I certainly don't think it's lacking anything in interest either through the noodly guitar part or the lack of a traditional chorus.

The only thing I noticed out of whack is there's something those descents into the chorus sections that's a touch messy. I've listened a bunch of times and I'm not quite sure what it is - whether it's the nylon string/the bass;whether they're slightly out of time or whether it's just a boomy frequency popping out...or whether it's just that the descent itself sounds a bit tentative.

I dunno if the above makes much sense, but there's something there each time that just doesn't quite gel.

I agree with others that the vocals could come up a touch too. Other than that, it's all damn good.

 

[Jessica_X]

Very cool! I just wanted to comment on the fast, rhythmic guitar part (syncopated triplets or whatever?) I really liked this part a lot but I thought it needed to be cleaned up rhythmically. It sounded a little bit imprecise and I thought that the notes that were accented needed to be accented more heavily. At 2:58 where the higher harmony part comes in I think this is even more the case.
That's the only thing I was sure enough about to comment on. Very cool song!

 

[heatmiser]

Good tune. I got lost in it and forgot I was listening to an MP3 Clinic tune. I like the bass line going on. Nice groove. I thought drums could stand to come up, but not by much. Maybe more so, a little boost in the higher freqs globally. like a broad rise from 2k on up. Just to add some 'airrrrrrrhhhhhhh'.

I only skimmed through the other comments, but saw someone else wrote the words. I thought they were typical Heat verbage!!

I wouldn't mind this song going on for a few more minutes, but I'm like you in that regard. Not sure how Greg endured for more than 2.5 minutes.

Thanks Chili. Yeah, not much ayuh (Maine for "air") in this mix, huh? Seems to be a trend with the last few I've done...not sure what's going on there. It's almost unanimous on the drum level at this point...I've done 2-3 mixes since the original, but each time I read more comments, I 2nd guessed what I was doing and started over...I'm stuck in that loop...damn!

Glad you enjoyed it, and yes, greg was very patient on this one. I bet this is the most low-energy tune he's had to play drums to in a long time.

Nice Job over all. Im in agreement that the drums are a little too buried in the mix. I also think the hard panned acoustic guitars can be brought down some. Other than that the whole sound of the track fits the song well.

Thanks mogo. Drums up...check. I also brought down the classical guitars on the sides and I think that helps a bit.

 

[heatmiser]

Dear Pete

Been saving this one up for a few days. You gotta bring the vocal up and the guitars down a bit.

Yours truly,

Paul

ps It's not quite that simple, but basically, yeah. The recording's great. It's the mix that has the vocals too far back and the guitars just a taste forward when they do that special dance move that they do. As for the guitars, it's a question of level. As for vocals, it's a question of something else. I like the doubling, but it's like they're hiding out in the mix. I mean, how does one embolden shy vocals? You're too young for viagra, so I'd suggest turning the fuckers up a bit. But something else in addition to that... dunno. You wanna bring the drums up a dB? Sure, why not? But the main instabilities are the guitars when they step out and the vocals which are shy and retiring.

Interesting...guitars down a bit...check. I think you were the 1st to suggest vocals up, but looking ahead, that becomes a theme. Not sure...I usually like my vocals buried a bit, but I think the latest mix (which I'll put up in a sec.) does have the vocals slightly higher maybe? I don't think they sound shy at all, but maybe I've just heard it too many times. Definitely getting sick of this one as I've remixed it more times than I can remember doing with any tune in a long while.

Thanks for listening and the advice.

 

[heatmiser]

Great to see this one getting a makeover Pete - I always really liked your original version.

It had never struck me before that there was anything small sounding about the original mix, but it does sound so in comparison with this new one - so you've made a big improvement for me. Guitar parts and tones sound great throughout and the arrangement still works for me as a whole. I certainly don't think it's lacking anything in interest either through the noodly guitar part or the lack of a traditional chorus.

The only thing I noticed out of whack is there's something those descents into the chorus sections that's a touch messy. I've listened a bunch of times and I'm not quite sure what it is - whether it's the nylon string/the bass;whether they're slightly out of time or whether it's just a boomy frequency popping out...or whether it's just that the descent itself sounds a bit tentative.

I dunno if the above makes much sense, but there's something there each time that just doesn't quite gel.

I agree with others that the vocals could come up a touch too. Other than that, it's all damn good.

Cheers rob. Thanks for checking in. I don't know about the timing there. Yeah, it is a little loose overall...almost like a bar band recording, but I think I'm ok with that? For such a simple song, you'd think I could get it tighter though...I can't pinpoint anything specific in the transitions though.

Vocals up, vocals down...I've tried it all and I have a new mix but frankly don't remember where I ended up with that now. Check it out if you get a chance and let me know.

Very cool! I just wanted to comment on the fast, rhythmic guitar part (syncopated triplets or whatever?) I really liked this part a lot but I thought it needed to be cleaned up rhythmically. It sounded a little bit imprecise and I thought that the notes that were accented needed to be accented more heavily. At 2:58 where the higher harmony part comes in I think this is even more the case.
That's the only thing I was sure enough about to comment on. Very cool song!

Thanks Jessica...I don't know as there's so many layered things at one point that it does get a bit jumbled sounding, but I thought I had the delay on that guitar bit synchronized fairly well? I don't have things in grid or anything, and it's a long delay, so being off a little is probably pretty noticeable. I just kept sliding the delay time back and forth until it seemed to fall on the beat. It sounds right to me, but it could be off. Thanks again.

 

[heatmiser]

New mix - 06/15/14

Ok, here's a new mix from last night. Damn, I may just be going in circles with this one...

I committed to bringing up the kick and snare, so you'll hear that. I brought down most of the guitars, vocals came down, then up. Not sure where they are now. I added another little keyboard line to the choruses. It's pretty rudimentary, but I like it...it doesn't save the day or anything, but by the last time through, it certainly adds to the layers of shit going all at once.

I guess now this sounds a bit dark to me overall, but it sounded great last night...new mix below and added to the 1st post:

 

[Chili]

Gonna have a decent listen later tonight. Heading out the door to the neighbors for some father's day celebratin'. BTW: Happy Father's Day to you, Pete.

 

[DogsoverLava]

Ok, here's a new mix from last night. Damn, I may just be going in circles with this one...

I committed to bringing up the kick and snare, so you'll hear that. I brought down most of the guitars, vocals came down, then up. Not sure where they are now. I added another little keyboard line to the choruses. It's pretty rudimentary, but I like it...it doesn't save the day or anything, but by the last time through, it certainly adds to the layers of shit going all at once.

I guess now this sounds a bit dark to me overall, but it sounded great last night...new mix below and added to the 1st post:

Now I've got this song in my head and that country twang to the vocal is creeping its way into something I'm tracking at home right now. I keep saying to myself "hey this aint a country song" but the twang is infectious. It's a great little vocal performance - very subtle and unassuming - really creeps up on the listener and just moves in (like my uncle did when we were kids. Came for a vist and was still there 10 years later). The vocal line about shoes on a telephone line and walking the wind is pretty epic. Kudos to the lyricist on that.

For that guitar solo I'd almost rather hear a banjo doing some gentle rolls there - nothing too fast but that timbre and the rolling would compliment the journeyman nature of the song... either that or slightly twang it up - give it a little more country specific texture. It would even be interesting to hear the solo be a pedal steel on the verse - playing the vocal melody with some embellishments - just to sell it more.

Really nice piece and I liked the fact that this song has a history and you have done some collaborating on it.

Regards
Rob

 

[Greg_L]

The 6/15 mix is much better to me. Seems more balanced and the drums have better presence. The only thing I'd suggest now with the drums is drop the overheads, just the overheads, just a little. Maybe like 1db.

 

[heatmiser]

Now I've got this song in my head and that country twang to the vocal is creeping its way into something I'm tracking at home right now. I keep saying to myself "hey this aint a country song" but the twang is infectious. It's a great little vocal performance - very subtle and unassuming - really creeps up on the listener and just moves in (like my uncle did when we were kids. Came for a vist and was still there 10 years later). The vocal line about shoes on a telephone line and walking the wind is pretty epic. Kudos to the lyricist on that.

For that guitar solo I'd almost rather hear a banjo doing some gentle rolls there - nothing too fast but that timbre and the rolling would compliment the journeyman nature of the song... either that or slightly twang it up - give it a little more country specific texture. It would even be interesting to hear the solo be a pedal steel on the verse - playing the vocal melody with some embellishments - just to sell it more.

Really nice piece and I liked the fact that this song has a history and you have done some collaborating on it.

Regards
Rob

Thanks for the kind words Rob. That's funny about the twang as I certainly don't intend to sound country or anything like that, but it's definitely there for some reason. I don't know why I sing it like that? I guess that's how those lyrics sound to me. My friend John wrote tons of tunes, some were really silly, but some are pretty good. I have no idea what he's talking about here, but I've always liked the line about "...both sides of my skin..." for some reason.

Good ideas on the solo. I'm afraid I don't own or play any of those instruments though. I'm pretty happy with the solo part here, but it sounds a lot like every other solo I do, such as it is. Thanks again.

The 6/15 mix is much better to me. Seems more balanced and the drums have better presence. The only thing I'd suggest now with the drums is drop the overheads, just the overheads, just a little. Maybe like 1db.

Good. Thanks Greg. I definitely like that it has a little more thump to it now. Easy enough to just turn up the kick & snare, but that led to fiddling with other things and eventually the OHs too. Maybe I boosted them in the end, but I'm not sure. I'll take a look.

 

[heatmiser]

Gonna have a decent listen later tonight. Heading out the door to the neighbors for some father's day celebratin'. BTW: Happy Father's Day to you, Pete.

Oh yeah, happy fathers' day to you too chili - thanks!

 

[Chili]

Oh yeah, happy fathers' day to you too chili - thanks!

Thanks man!

I know that loop you're talking about. Get comments, make changes, get more comments, make more changes. Sometimes the clinic can backfire on ya. Too much help. It's not a bad thing, just gotta know what direction you want to go and filter comments accordingly. Especially when you've been writing and recording for a while and the suggested changes are minor.

For me, I think this song is 95% there. I could nitpick, but there's no need. I'm a fan of your work, I enjoy listening to most everything you put up. I think that's what really counts.

 

[propman]

Peter, this is the first time I've had the need to say this about ANYTHING you've done and I'm going to try to lay it out in the nicest possible way: this isn't doing it for me. I've been a fan of your music for years and am extremely familiar with the original version, which I think is superior. It has a slower, mellower tempo that breathes very nicely and a simplicity that makes it sound laid back and sweet. It makes me think of where I live. The down-home imagery in the lyrics is perfectly realized by the likemindedness of the music. This seems too polished and over-thought. Sonically, it sounds great and Greg's drumming is super-funky as usual but it just isn't the same song. I'm sorry buddy but I'm going to be sticking to the drum machine and cassette version.

 

[Greg_L]

just gotta know what direction you want to go and filter comments accordingly.

This.

 

[Armistice]

I've only listened to the latest version - it's your usual high quality stuff, and I never listen to you with the aim of giving feedback but because I know I'm going to like the tune... I wasn't disappointed. Absolutely love all the little keyboard and guitar figures... awesome, and I haven't head the version propman refers to but this works just fine for me with real drumming. Great feel.

Noice.... real noice.

 

[heatmiser]

Thanks man!

I know that loop you're talking about. Get comments, make changes, get more comments, make more changes. Sometimes the clinic can backfire on ya. Too much help. It's not a bad thing, just gotta know what direction you want to go and filter comments accordingly. Especially when you've been writing and recording for a while and the suggested changes are minor.

For me, I think this song is 95% there. I could nitpick, but there's no need. I'm a fan of your work, I enjoy listening to most everything you put up. I think that's what really counts.

Thanks Chili. 95% ain't bad! I agree with your advice and normally adhere to that pretty well. I guss in this case I honestly wasn't sure what direction I was taking, plus the feedback I got was so varied and in some cases contradictory. It's easier when there's real consensus, you know?

Thanks for coming back. I think I like the 06/15 mix, but Greg's right about the OHs.

This.

I agree. I think I've even given similar advice to others in the past. Every once in a while I lose confidence/focus though.

 

[heatmiser]

Peter, this is the first time I've had the need to say this about ANYTHING you've done and I'm going to try to lay it out in the nicest possible way: this isn't doing it for me. I've been a fan of your music for years and am extremely familiar with the original version, which I think is superior. It has a slower, mellower tempo that breathes very nicely and a simplicity that makes it sound laid back and sweet. It makes me think of where I live. The down-home imagery in the lyrics is perfectly realized by the likemindedness of the music. This seems too polished and over-thought. Sonically, it sounds great and Greg's drumming is super-funky as usual but it just isn't the same song. I'm sorry buddy but I'm going to be sticking to the drum machine and cassette version.

You jerk! How could you ???

No, it's totally cool Adam. I am flattered that you even have an opinion on the original version, let alone that it is so positive.

I'm not thinking in terms of better/worse here, it's just different. I'm pretty sure someone who's never heard it before would not feel that this is "too" polished, but in comparison, I understand what you're saying. I'm not a big fan of revisiting old material, but I did want to condense it and update it some. I'm reasonably happy with the results. The very first "live" version from my garage is my favorite. The lyricist sings on it and I'm afraid he's tone deaf or something, and it's like 10 mins. long and the guitar parts are really twisted. Sounds like absolute shit though!

 

[heatmiser]

I've only listened to the latest version - it's your usual high quality stuff, and I never listen to you with the aim of giving feedback but because I know I'm going to like the tune... I wasn't disappointed. Absolutely love all the little keyboard and guitar figures... awesome, and I haven't head the version propman refers to but this works just fine for me with real drumming. Great feel.

Noice.... real noice.

Oh wow. That's really nice Armistice. Thank you!

I have a hammond organ now and I am not letting the fact that I don't play piano at all stop me! Glad it works for you.

 

[fat_fleet]

The 2nd mix sounds really good to me. Also listened to the old soundclick one to get an idea. This one is definitely cleaner and more concise... I think you pull a few more tricks out of your guitar hat here too... maybe more variation in the instrument sounds. I really like how the Hammond's sounding in your mixes...nice and full. Greg's drums sound great and the bass locks in nice and tight. Sounds great- especially in that instrumental section at the end.

 

[robgreen]

Cheers rob. Thanks for checking in. I don't know about the timing there. Yeah, it is a little loose overall...almost like a bar band recording, but I think I'm ok with that? For such a simple song, you'd think I could get it tighter though...I can't pinpoint anything specific in the transitions though.

Vocals up, vocals down...I've tried it all and I have a new mix but frankly don't remember where I ended up with that now. Check it out if you get a chance and let me know.

Hey, listened again as requested Pete. I'm still hearing that issue - for me it's most prominent in the first one between like 49-52 secs. I think it's as the nylon string comes in - it's slightly out of time and a bit boomy. I think I'm in danger of overstating the significance of it, but the first time I played it, I was only half listening and it caught my attention because it jutted out - so I thought I'd put it down. Nobody else has commented on it though, so maybe it's just me. I wouldn't worry about it much.

Vocal levels sound better this time around I think. Well done Heat.