telephone wire - with Greg_L on drums

heatmiser

heatmiser

mr. green christmas
Hey,

So, how's this one sounding?

Greg was nice enough to offer to track some drums for me. Not wanting to miss out, but not having a new tune ready, I sent him some rough, acoustic scratch tracks for this older tune that I've done a few times before years ago on cassette. He did a great job, so I went back and re-tracked the song itself around his drums.

I think it sounds pretty good overall. Not my best mix or anything, and this is actually like the 3rd one now, but just wondering if anything seems glaringly wrong to folks.

In retrospect, I think the arrangement could've been more varied and/or lively, but it's not bad and it gets the point across...any thoughts?



New, 06/15/14 mix:



Thanks,
Pete
 
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I really like the track but the effected guitar isn't enough to fill that space - is a couple of bars lead into a solo it'd be really cool as it was I was waiting for it to end or resolve into something else which it did 2nd time around but took too long to get there and didn't get solid.
Cool lyrics.
When the chuggy guitars arrived late in the song it gave and then grew the cascading effect was developed by the sustained lines things seemed to work far better for my taste.
A vocal melody with lyrics devloping what you have over the 1st two effected bits would be great AND would set up an expectation for the same at the end which would be pinched by the chugs & solo.
 
I had a quick sneaky listen yesterday with all intentions of coming back to comment but life had other plans.....so here I am.

I really like the song for a kick off. The thing that really stood out for me yesterday were the triplets? quadruplets? whatever they are, on the guitar, you know the bit. I didn't think they added anything to the song at all. (Listening back today they actually sound better than I remember them)

I really liked the drums. Greg's done you justice there. Overall I really like it, maybe some more acoustic guitar rhythm to help drive it along and flesh it out?

Great song though. Nice to know that Sneakers/Trainers/Pumps get thrown over telephone wires over there too. :laughings:

:thumbs up:
 
Yay! I think it needs more drums. No, really. Not just cuz I played them, but they're a little small in the mix. The overheads are fine, just bring the kick and snare up a little. Otherwise I think all the sounds and levels are good.
 
Greg_L said:
Yay! I think it needs more drums. No, really. Not just cuz I played them, but they're a little small in the mix. The overheads are fine, just bring the kick and snare up a little. Otherwise I think all the sounds and levels are good.
Click to expand...

I was going to say the same thing, but didn't want it to look like I'm just closing ranks with another drummer. I find that, for some reason, on any collaboration, the drums are always too low. Not sure why. Maybe it is because I'm a drummer, who knows. But I did think the drums could come up on this when I heard it yesterday. I'll listen again when I get home from work later.
 
Drummers unite and fight for what's right! :D

Maybe we mix our drums too loud, but I don't think so. I think most people just aren't too familiar with mixing actual real live human played drum tracks. And it's easy to lose the drums when you start plopping all the other stuff on top of them. Heatmiser's mixes are always good though, so I'm not accusing him of being a n00b or anything. The drums in this are audible, they're there, they're not being totally squashed out, I'd just like them a little more up front. Just a little.
 
Cool tune - the arrangement works good with the harmonies and lead fills. I like the lyrics - stuff like walkin the wind is pretty cool....
 
rayc said:
I really like the track but the effected guitar isn't enough to fill that space - is a couple of bars lead into a solo it'd be really cool as it was I was waiting for it to end or resolve into something else which it did 2nd time around but took too long to get there and didn't get solid.
Cool lyrics.
When the chuggy guitars arrived late in the song it gave and then grew the cascading effect was developed by the sustained lines things seemed to work far better for my taste.
A vocal melody with lyrics devloping what you have over the 1st two effected bits would be great AND would set up an expectation for the same at the end which would be pinched by the chugs & solo.
Click to expand...

Mr Clean said:
I had a quick sneaky listen yesterday with all intentions of coming back to comment but life had other plans.....so here I am.

I really like the song for a kick off. The thing that really stood out for me yesterday were the triplets? quadruplets? whatever they are, on the guitar, you know the bit. I didn't think they added anything to the song at all. (Listening back today they actually sound better than I remember them)

I really liked the drums. Greg's done you justice there. Overall I really like it, maybe some more acoustic guitar rhythm to help drive it along and flesh it out?

Great song though. Nice to know that Sneakers/Trainers/Pumps get thrown over telephone wires over there too. :laughings:

:thumbs up:
Click to expand...

Thanks both of you for listening and for the advice. I think I agree with what both of you seem to be saying about the repeating, delayed guitar part during the breaks (chorus?). It isn't enough to be featured so much. I've always had a similar thing going during those parts of this song in previous incarnations, but it was more of a backgorund layer, and I stripped this back probably too much and it just feels empty.

Unfortunately, I burned through 23 of my available 24 tracks just to get where I'm at now. I don't think simply adding one new track/part will save the day. Discouraging...but I agree with your assessments.

A freind of mine wrote the lyrics like 20+ yrs. ago or something, and there's never been lyrics for a chorus. That seemed to be less of an issue with prior versions, but I think in the past I always solo'd over that bit. I didn't want to do that here (actually shortened the song from 7+ to 4+ - can you imagine?), but neglected to put anything in place of that. Rats.

Thanks again - I'll give all of that some thought.
 
Greg_L said:
Yay! I think it needs more drums. No, really. Not just cuz I played them, but they're a little small in the mix. The overheads are fine, just bring the kick and snare up a little. Otherwise I think all the sounds and levels are good.
Click to expand...

RAMI said:
I was going to say the same thing, but didn't want it to look like I'm just closing ranks with another drummer. I find that, for some reason, on any collaboration, the drums are always too low. Not sure why. Maybe it is because I'm a drummer, who knows. But I did think the drums could come up on this when I heard it yesterday. I'll listen again when I get home from work later.
Click to expand...

Greg_L said:
Drummers unite and fight for what's right! :D

Maybe we mix our drums too loud, but I don't think so. I think most people just aren't too familiar with mixing actual real live human played drum tracks. And it's easy to lose the drums when you start plopping all the other stuff on top of them. Heatmiser's mixes are always good though, so I'm not accusing him of being a n00b or anything. The drums in this are audible, they're there, they're not being totally squashed out, I'd just like them a little more up front. Just a little.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm sure you guys are right. Greg, you did a great job with this. The part supports everything well without taking over. Your tracks were clean and full sounding. I really processed them pretty heavily to try to get a more dirty and modest sound that I thought would blend better with my lo fi-ish tracks. To some extent it works, but yeah, the snare and particularly the kick, are not strong here.

I dunno what I did. I've worked with real drums before (my own and others), but lately it's a struggle. Same thing with my last tune with fat-fleet's drums. The snare, and especially the kick, get buried, even though they're registering far stronger on the meters than any other tracks. Maybe I should bring everything else down rather than boosting them?

In retrospect, it seems a shame to waste Greg's drums on rehashing an older tune. You get an opportunity like that though, and you strike while the iron is hot!
 
Sounds terrific. Tone on things is really good.

I'd lower the guitar level a bit. I'd probably lower the vocal levels about half as much as you lower the guitar (e.g., if you lower the guitar by 2db's, lower the vocal by 1 db). I'd raise the snare level a bit. The snare is a little too reverb-y for me. But then I like things bone dry.

No other nits for me to pick. No pops. :D.

Sounded good guys.
 
TripleM said:
Sounds terrific. Tone on things is really good.

I'd lower the guitar level a bit. I'd probably lower the vocal levels about half as much as you lower the guitar (e.g., if you lower the guitar by 2db's, lower the vocal by 1 db). I'd raise the snare level a bit. The snare is a little too reverb-y for me. But then I like things bone dry.

No other nits for me to pick. No pops. :D.

Sounded good guys.
Click to expand...

Thanks Trip. Glad it's sounding mostly good to you. I'm generally happy with the tone of things too. I think I can get a better drum balance going pretty easily between raising kick and snare and/or lowering everything else. The mix part may turn out ok.

I know this isn't the arrangement clinic (although the mixing and arranging can go hand in hand when you're a do-it-yourselfer), but if anyone has any ideas I'd appreciate it.

If any of you had this existing arrangement and just one spare track left to try to make those breaks (choruses) less boring (especially the 1st two), what would you do?

I understand that a vocal melody/hook would be the normal thing there, but for a variety of reasons, that isn't going to happen. What about a single, new melody line over the chords and delayed guitars on the organ? I guess I just need to try some things...

Thanks again.
 
More Organ to fill the spots would work well as you already have it the in the rhythm, so it wouldn't be an alien instrument added. A few fluttering leads on the keys could bring those parts to life.

:thumbs up:
 
Mr Clean said:
More Organ to fill the spots would work well as you already have it the in the rhythm, so it wouldn't be an alien instrument added. A few fluttering leads on the keys could bring those parts to life.

:thumbs up:
Click to expand...

Cool. I'll get to work practicing my fluttering!

:D
 
Tobe said:
I like it and think the vocal could be mixed louder. It also seems like a 3:30 minute song to me. A shorter version might have more punch.

The vibe reminds me of an Australian artist called Paul Kelly... (not this song exactly)... but might help with the mix.

Paul Kelly - Before Too Long - YouTube
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Thanks Tobe. I can't listen to that vid at work, but will check it out later. Never heard of that fellow.

Yeah, I'm sure it is too long, but I already shortened it from over 7 minutes in its original form...lots more noodling and a loooong outro previously. I'm not a great short song guy, but I've come a long way from humble beginnings of 10+ minute jams.

I have a new mix based on prior feedback (where it was suggested the vocals could come down - I'm always down with less vocals), so I'm afraid I won't be able to try vocals up until the next mix if I do one.

I may post the new mix later tonight or tomorrow - thanks again!
 
Good tune. I got lost in it and forgot I was listening to an MP3 Clinic tune. I like the bass line going on. Nice groove. I thought drums could stand to come up, but not by much. Maybe more so, a little boost in the higher freqs globally. like a broad rise from 2k on up. Just to add some 'airrrrrrrhhhhhhh'. :D

I only skimmed through the other comments, but saw someone else wrote the words. I thought they were typical Heat verbage!! :)

I wouldn't mind this song going on for a few more minutes, but I'm like you in that regard. Not sure how Greg endured for more than 2.5 minutes. :)
 
Nice Job over all. Im in agreement that the drums are a little too buried in the mix. I also think the hard panned acoustic guitars can be brought down some. Other than that the whole sound of the track fits the song well.
 
heatmiser said:
Hey,

So, how's this one sounding?
Pete
Click to expand...

Dear Pete

Been saving this one up for a few days. You gotta bring the vocal up and the guitars down a bit.

Yours truly,

Paul

ps It's not quite that simple, but basically, yeah. The recording's great. It's the mix that has the vocals too far back and the guitars just a taste forward when they do that special dance move that they do. As for the guitars, it's a question of level. As for vocals, it's a question of something else. I like the doubling, but it's like they're hiding out in the mix. I mean, how does one embolden shy vocals? You're too young for viagra, so I'd suggest turning the fuckers up a bit. But something else in addition to that... dunno. You wanna bring the drums up a dB? Sure, why not? But the main instabilities are the guitars when they step out and the vocals which are shy and retiring.
 
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