Technicians vs. Minimalists

[Steve Moser]

Sigh.

If you didn't click option number three, you need some experience.

 

[Eclectist]

I've actually thought about this a good bit over the years. Manu Katche and Stewart Copeland seem to be the two avatars that I return to when trying to explain this. Manu Katche can paint such aural landscapes with just a 10" splash and a 16" thin crash - it's minimalist, but with a lotta oomph. If you listen to his stuff with Peter Gabriel you get one picture. If you listen to his stuff with Joe Satriani (eponymous album), you get a completely different picture: both are that of a competent, working studio drummer, but with great nuance and flexibility to fit the artist and serve the artist's vision. Contrast this with Stewart Copeland -from Regatta de Blanc through Synchronicity, and Kinetic Kid and Oysterhead, you get Stewart Copeland. As MSH said, he's a bona fide master of the hat, and when he lets go, it's the snare from hell (I'm still trying to get that snare sound), but there's only so much variation. The variation of Copeland is in what he puts of himself into the piece. Manu Katche molds to the various artists, whereas Copeland makes it much more of a collaborative piece. Both are exemplars of 'fit over fashion', and sublimation to the song, all the while remaining incredibly technically proficient drummers, but they both do it in their own way. Now contrast this with Magnus Ostrom from EST ...

 

[drossfile]

Sigh.

If you don't agree with me, you're a douche.

you're right. it must be frustrating dealing with such idiots who wouldn't click the same option as you. nice first post, welcome to the forum. you'll fit right in.

 

[RezN8]

It's a classic debate, but when a drummer can play from the heart and give the music exactly what is called for, be it over the top or way deep in the pocket, that's it!

For me personally, it's ALL gotta groove! Listen to "Green Onions".

If you can play 64th notes @ 180 bpm, good for you but big freaking deal to me. If you can lay that down and root it deep inside the groove, now THAT is playing.

 

[bubbagump]

Play according to what the tune requires. That is all there is too it... some stuff requires a bunch of buggada buggadas, some things are four on the floor. Skill allows you to confidently execute what your taste dictates.

 

[noirengineer]

I think you should stay as minimal as possible. Consider Mimi Parker.

 

[Bob Womack]

I prefer a great clock with interesting fills, like Joe Vitale.

 

[Steve Moser]

Posted by drossfille:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Moser
Sigh.

If you don't agree with me, you're a douche.


you're right. it must be frustrating dealing with such idiots who wouldn't click the same option as you. nice first post, welcome to the forum. you'll fit right in.

Perhaps I was a little terse in my post, but I also should mention that the practice of misquoting someone is not only bad form, but makes you look like a bigger douche.

Just sayin...

 

[drossfile]

Posted by drossfille:



Perhaps I was a little terse in my post, but I also should mention that the practice of misquoting someone is not only bad form, but makes you look like a bigger douche.

Just sayin...

i look like a bigger douche than whom? those who disagree with you?

read my post. i didn't call you a douche.

and misquoting someone as a humorous methodology isn't bad form, it's fun.

and picking on newbies who waltz in here like they're the shit is even more fun.

 

[Steve Moser]

i don't think anyone's contesting my skills--I dont have them. it's just that I'm a bit assy about the whole thing and kind of entered the forum as a self-spammer.

and you're right--it's unbelievable how many people like myself (not just forum chatters) are proficient when they're talking to themselves but have no idea how to talk to other people. disgraceful.

I see your point.

 

[probestyle]

I find it interesting that nobody has mentioned Carter Beauford. He is an incredible drummer. . . but wether onCD or Live he neverseems to go overboard and adds some of the tightest grooves you will hear to songs.

 

[drossfile]

I find it interesting that nobody has mentioned Carter Beauford. He is an incredible drummer. . . but wether onCD or Live he neverseems to go overboard and adds some of the tightest grooves you will hear to songs.

good call. i would put him in the "technician" camp (although he may belong in the "balance" category), and he really is incredible. i love his off-kilter tom/hat/snare fills.

 

[Newmetman]

I like a subtle approach, drummers who are constantly busy, but make it sound easy and effortless, and fit the song. Players like Gavin Harrison of Porcupine Tree the drummer of Les Claypool's fancy band, and Silas from Mew. They're flashy, but everything fits the song and isn't overly complicated

 

[drossfile]

another incredible technician i forgot to mention is antonio sanchez. the guy is a master of dynamics and technique. pat metheny's "the way up" is quite possibly the best piece of music i've ever heard, and i don't think any other drummer could've pulled it off like he did. sure, he doesn't fit the "crazy, busy" description, but he's as technical as it gets.

 

[gecko zzed]

I was in a session with some musos playing cajun and zydeco, when this guy ambled in wheeling a suitcase. He asked "can I join you guys?". We said "sure".

He opened his suitcase, and pulled out a tiny splash cymbal and a kick pedal. He put the suitcase on its edge, clamped the cymbal on the top, fixed the kick to the bottom . . . instant drum kit!

And that guy could play!. With just those two bits and a pair of brushes he locked us in tighter than torque wrench.

This means I am in the school of thought that says: use the minimum you need to achieve the sound you want, play the minimum to suit the needs of the song. Let space do the work for you.

 

[issofunky]

depends on the syle of music....

DUMB QUESTION~!

show off drummers have their place
boring drummers have their place
dumb questions have a place too...in the trash bin.

A jazz combo with a boring drummer is a dead fish .....

as a Classic Rock group with a show off drummer is going to sound all wrong too....unless you're playing with the Winter Bros.

It's a matter of style and target sound,

Last week, I saw a film of Neil Peart playing with a bigband as part of a buddy rich tribute...he sucked...and I'm a Rush fan...HONEST....but his INSANELY fine tuned technique just plain SUCKS in a jazz context.

Jazz is about flow not rigid definition and stick control.

He has about as much soul and swing as Robbie Williams jamming with Justin Timberlake.....the "swing" he was attempting sounded so damn forced and dragged that the WHOLE band sounded like they were being squeezed through playing along side some MIDI sequence ...it was just horific....

If the Rolling Stones lose thier drummer...I wish them BEST of luck finding ANYONE who can play as reserved as charlie has for the last 40 years....they've been the highest grossing touring act for three years now.

Simplicity speaks for it's self,
and it puts its money where its mouth is.

That being said....rarely does anyone come up with anything as complicated as the average Art Blakey vamp.
his "just keeping time" sound would take most drummers a few years to grasp and master....and it redefined the face of be-bop.

I doubt Paul McCartney ever hired the show-up in the cattle call auditions.

 

[drossfile]

Sigh.

If you didn't click option number three, you need some experience.

steve moser,

i was gonna let this whole thing blow over--i figured there was no sense in getting too involved in an online conflict with some newbie who used his first 3 posts in this forum to show what an asshole he is. so i chose not to respond to your last post in here, which was directed at me, no less assy than the previous; nor will i respond to it now.

that aside, you're a fucking jackoff with no credibility, but i'm going to give you some free advice anyway:

newbies can't give negative rep, they can only give "neutral" rep. and when you "neg" someone who actually has some rep power, they can come down on you a hell of lot harder than you can on them.

just so you know.

fucking jackoff.

 

[Steve Moser]

steve moser,

i was gonna let this whole thing blow over--i figured there was no sense in getting too involved in an online conflict with some newbie who used his first 3 posts in this forum to show what an asshole he is. so i chose not to respond to your last post in here, which was directed at me, no less assy than the previous; nor will i respond to it now.

that aside, you're a fucking jackoff with no credibility, but i'm going to give you some free advice anyway:

newbies can't give negative rep, they can only give "neutral" rep. and when you "neg" someone who actually has some rep power, they can come down on you a hell of lot harder than you can on them.

just so you know.

fucking jackoff.

Thank you for that eloquent and mature response.

I also appreciate the advice.

But am i to assume that "credibility" is established by people in who click on a button? Do you actually believe that personal credibility can be evaluated in a cutesy red and green meter and a number? Certainly not a scientific poll.

How are you going to "come down on me hard?" By giving me a bad reputation with a mouse click? Sorry, my friend, it's not quite that easy. Perhaps you should continue reading my future posts. I just might know a thing or two.

My credibility stands. You're not doing yours any favors with posts like that.

By the way... are you really 32 years old? I would have guessed 14.

 

[drossfile]

I just might know a thing or two.

maybe you do, maybe you don't. that's the point. you don't walk in here swinging your dick around insulting people before you've established any credibility.

My credibility stands.

on what, you saying that it does?

You're not doing yours any favors with posts like that.

i think there are plenty of people around here who'd back me up on this. but i could be wrong--something you're hell-bent on not admitting yourself.

By the way... are you really 32 years old? I would have guessed 14.

um...in the "neg" rep you left me, your comment read, "try Vi@gr@. click here." i don't think you have much room to talk in this department.

and now i'm finished with this nonsense. i don't care if you're steve frigging jordan--no one knows that, so your first post should contribute something other than elitist insults. that was the whole point. you're the one that turned it into a pissing contest.

finis.

 

[Steve Moser]

maybe you do, maybe you don't. that's the point. you don't walk in here swinging your dick around insulting people before you've established any credibility.




on what, you saying that it does?



i think there are plenty of people around here who'd back me up on this. but i could be wrong--something you're hell-bent on not admitting yourself.



um...in the "neg" rep you left me, your comment read, "try Vi@gr@. click here." i don't think you have much room to talk in this department.

and now i'm finished with this nonsense. i don't care if you're steve frigging jordan--no one knows that, so your first post should contribute something other than elitist insults. that was the whole point. you're the one that turned it into a pissing contest.

finis.

Well, when you become a moderator, you may have some credibility. And where are the moderators?

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

/thread