Technicians vs. Minimalists

  • Thread starter Thread starter drossfile
  • Start date Start date

Technicians vs. Minimalists

  • Gimme the technical, busy, crazy drummers!

    Votes: 6 5.7%

  • I hate show-offs! A drummer's job is to keep time.

    Votes: 10 9.4%

  • It's best to strike a balance between the two.

    Votes: 90 84.9%
  • Total voters
    106
drossfile

drossfile

nope
i've always gravitated towards the more technical, busy "show-off" drummers like billy cobham, danny carey, terry bozzio, jon theodore, and morgan agren.

some people loathe this style of drumming and like the simpler timekeeping approach of john bonham or chris slade.

when primus replaced tim alexander with brain, les claypool said that the reason for the change was tim was a "neil peart" and they needed more of a "john bonham." i personally thought alexander was far more interesting, but not necessarily the superior drummer.

so this isn't about which one is better, but simply which style you prefer. cite any and all examples you like. i'd also like to see which drummers you all think fall in between the two categories. i would think stewart copeland would be one.
 
I tend to like drums that fill that space, but don't get too busy unless the song can use it. AC/DC comes to mind...nothing too flashy, it fits, and just sounds right.
 
drossfile said:
i've always gravitated towards the more technical, busy "show-off" drummers like billy cobham, danny carey, terry bozzio, jon theodore, and morgan agren.

some people loathe this style of drumming and like the of john bonham or chris slade.

when primus replaced tim alexander with brain, les claypool said that the reason for the change was tim was a "neil peart" and they needed more of a "john bonham." i personally thought alexander was far more interesting, but not necessarily the superior drummer.

so this isn't about which one is better, but simply which style you prefer. cite any and all examples you like. i'd also like to see which drummers you all think fall in between the two categories. i would think stewart copeland would be one.
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I really think your statement about John Bonham as a "simpler timekeeping approach" to drumming is a gross understatement. Bonham was far far better than that of a simple time keeper. I'll take a true player over a technician any day, anytime. There is more to drumming then BPM or flash. Not that there isn't a place for technical playing. Bozzio for example, was exceptional when he was with Zappa; why, because his style and that of the music lends itself to the more technical aspects. However, if you heard the same guy when he was with Missing Persons, you would have never thought he was of the same caliber.
 
Simman said:
I really think your statement about John Bonham as a "simpler timekeeping approach" to drumming is a gross understatement. Bonham was far far better than that of a simple time keeper. I'll take a true player over a technician any day, anytime. There is more to drumming then BPM or flash. Not that there isn't a place for technical playing. Bozzio for example, was exceptional when he was with Zappa; why, because his style and that of the music lends itself to the more technical aspects. However, if you heard the same guy when he was with Missing Persons, you would have never thought he was of the same caliber.
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i'm not using the term "minimalist timekeeping" as an insult, but i'm just trying to separate the two styles as best i can--of course bonham is great. in the op i even mentioned that tim alexander wasn't necessarily better than brain, just my preference. and if i thought bpm or flash were all there were to being a great drummer, i'd probably list derek roddy and dave lombardo amongst my faves (not that those guys don't have a lot of talent). but i also reject a distinction between "true drummers" and "technicians." there are great drummers in both the minimalist and technical camps.

and i wholeheartedly agree that the musical style has a lot to do with it. after i posted the poll, it occurred to me that i just like progressive music a whole lot more than standard rock. i listen to king crimson, mahavishnu orchestra, old yes, meshuggah, etc. i do not, however, particularly enjoy ac/dc, aerosmith, or even led zeppelin for the most part. but much of the reason i'm more into prog is because of the drumming--i just prefer the zany, off-kilter, busy drumming.

oh, and mike portnoy is another favorite of mine...forgot to mention him. :)
 
Bill Ward for minimalist, yet great technique...:D
 
Steve Jordan. Steve Jordan. Steve Jordan. Legend.
 
Both approaches work - but it depends on the music being played. The drummer should serve the song. If the song simply needs a backbeat - then that's what should be played. If the song calls for complex patterns - then hopefully the drummer can handle that.

However, regardless of technique - a drummer must know how to groove.
 
Ahhh yes, "groove". The most vague and overused word in any drummer discussion. :D
 
I'm sure he is, but where's his "groove"? He has the most ridiculous kit in the world (except maybe Bozzio), but the session greats lke Clem Cattini, Gadd, and Kenny Aronoff can get so much more out of so much less.

And that's not to say they can't all pull out the chops when needed, it's just a case of being tasteful and choosing the right moments to do it...
 
legionserial said:
Mike Portnoy rocks. He's just as adept at keeping it simple as he is dealing with the complicated stuff.
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Yeah, but it creeps me out that somebody would learn the entire drum solo from "Exit Stage Left" and then release it as a drum clinic video.

That's just weird. Write your own goddamn solo.
 
If we're talking "Minimalist Drummers"....I dunno man...there's a Def Leppard joke in there somewhere.:eek:
 
drossfile said:
i'd also like to see which drummers you all think fall in between the two categories. i would think stewart copeland would be one.
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See, that's it right there, Copeland can hold an entire song with just a hat. Bruford could do it with just a snare. Moon played his entire kit like it was a single drum. Jazz cats can do it with just a ride.

I don't get the brush on the snare sound at all though. I listen to old jazz records and think, man this recording is really noisy. Then I realize it's not noise, it's the snare!
 
Personally, I don't think that "true drummer" and "technician" should be seperated. To me, a TRUE drummer is the one that plays like a technician when the time is right, lays down the groove when they need to, pushes their dynamics as called, and sometimes the most important thing which many drummers don't understand, is stopping when they should. To me a true drummer does not have to be the most talented one. The real true drummer is the one that has an understanding of both what the song needs and what their own strengths and boundaries are. True drummers always operate within those parameters. It is hard to say who is which though because their intent has a lot to do with it. Not to mention, what you hate about one drummer may be what I lvoe and vice versa.
 
Too right, the best drummers IMHO are the ones who play for the song, whether it be Jordison beating his way around a massive setup behind a wall of distortion and bass, or Darryl Pierce holding it down on kick and snare while Bettye Lavette does her nice singy thing.
 
xstatic said:
The real true drummer is the one that has an understanding of both what the song needs and what their own strengths and boundaries are. True drummers always operate within those parameters.
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i definitely agree with this for the most part, but one of the things that i really love about billy cobham is his refusal to stay within his own limitations. you hear small mistakes throughout mahavishnu orchestra's studio albums--from ALL players (except maybe jerry goodman) because they're all getting so frigging MANIC on the song. i like to hear someone so into the music that they're not spot-on 100% of the time due to their out-of-control catharsis. of course, once again, this circles back to the "serving the music" argument. i don't think "yyz" would sound right with even the smallest dose of sloppiness, but on "vital transformation" it's perfectly acceptable and even makes you smile. like this--->:D
 
I like the simple time keeper, but a skilled one. For example, someone who uses a lot of small barely noticable nuances for simple beats like small ghost rolls and snare/high hat accents when playiong a simple beat. That kind of playing goes unnotticed to someone who doesnt play or doesnt really listen closely, but for me it helps to fill things in nicely. The drummer from Weezer is a good example of that. But on the other end, I love the busy drummers, but they only fit in with the band. You couldnt throw them in with anyone else and expect the same results. Jones was fucking sick with Coltrane, one of my all time favorites. Cobham is great as well with McGlaughlin, but his solo stuff was too much at times, at least with the more up tempo in your face guitar/synth solos. But his down tempo chilled out tunes from Spectrum are great, he did have a minimal approach to a few of those but still threw in a little extra technical stuff to make it awesome.
 
You guys are crazy! It's all about flash and technique!

If all you can do is play a basic beat and hold a tempo, then you SUCK!!







:):D
 
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