Technical Guitar Skills

I want in on this because I am one of those dudes who doesn't know anything about anything. I just play notes and move my fingers around until I stop screwing up, then I hit record.

I'm going to try to learn the pattern blocks that cakewalkKaKed posted and then I'm going to give up and go back to my old ways.

Yeah, motivation is an issue. Can't be arsed to explain why...
 
I wish I could read music or tablature. I can play in any key but a lot of the time I'm clueless on what key I'm in. I play blues and jazz chords that I don't have a clue what the chord is called. I think if I had if had some formal technical musical training I would be a technically better guitarist. On the other had, I wonder if I would have developed my style and had some of the chops I developed by playing along with records ....and learning the wrong way to play things.
I remember when VHS came out and you could get concert footage of guitarists. I was like "ohhh. so that's the way it's supposed to be played"
I learned so many wrong fretboard fingerings. But, still today I play that way....it's comfortable.
 
Greg_L said:
This is the problem for theory dummies like me that would like to understand more. We can't, and it's frustrating, because those that know this foreign language talk about it like everyone is just born knowing this shit.
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You're right that I'm doing that in this thread. It would take a bit too long to start from ground zero and work up to it, but I do exactly that in the book: start with how to build a major scale from the ground up and build from there.

Anyway, the study of scales and/or modes is certainly not pointless for the music you play. Most of the rapidly changing chords in your songs (I'm guessing) likely belong to one key, and understanding scales and their relationships to chords would allow you to learn how to improvise because you'd understand how the chords fit together.

In rock music, you usually don't have to change modes with every chord; you can usually just solo with one scale over the entire progression if you want (and many great solos have been played doing just that). But understanding scales and chords will help you avoid having to hunt and peck for the right notes. You'll know which ones will "work" (and why), which ones can work with a little forethought, and how to create tension and/or resolution, etc. Having said that, you'd still be able to forget everything if you want and just rock out on the minor pentatonic for the whole solo. I know lots of scales and theory, but often times the good ol' minor pentatonic does the trick, so that's what I play.
 
Greg, I know this shit is a pain in the arse if people are just chucking terms, like key, mode and interval around without explaining anything. So I've recorded something over one of my tracks that you've heard before.

This is a two chord sequence. C/F follwed by Am - just repeated. So, I've decided that I want my lead to sound "cheery" so I've gone for the C Major (Inonian) scale. But, the C Major Scale is the same as the A Minor (Aeolian - think of it like your pentatonic) scale. So, in this case, I can use both the C Major scale with the the root note on the 8th Fret of the E String or the A Minor scale with root note on the 5th fret of the E String.

Now because of the way the C Major (Inonian) and A Minor (Aeolian) Scale fit with the chord sequence it sounds a bit Cheery (which I normally loathe) when I am playing C/F followed by a bit more Lonely when I am playing A Minor.

Remember these two scales are just "shapes" on the fretboard, the notes are identical (they're the same scale extended up the fretboard!). This means that you now have the freedom of movement to play anywhere within these two scale shapes and still sound in tune so now you have a pretty good reach over the fretboard, wherever your hand happens to be between these two chords. There is however a gap between the two scales so you can't move between them fluidly - but there's another scale shape to fill in the gap.

The order of your modal shapes is Inonian, Dorian, Phyrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, Locrian. So the scale shape between Aeolian (which you're playing at A Minor) and Inonian (which you're playing at C Major) is a B Locrian.

Remember, your lead isn't going to be flipping between keys of A, B and C here - its all the same scale which is either C Major or A Minor depending on what way your brain in wired.

In the attached clip I run though the A Aeolian scale rooting on the 5th Fret (which sounds cheesey as fuck over the C chord, 'cos it implies a C major feel) then I go to a B Locrian scale (which is the same fucking notes) but now it sounds completely different 'cos I'm playing over A Minor so it has that kind of lonely feel to it. Then I play a C Ionian scale shape over the C. After that I just start adlibbing across all three scale shapes.

I feel that, when I go back to playing the C Inonian scale shape over the C chord, it still has a minory, lonely kind of feel to me. 'cos that's kind of what has got stuck in my brain now - one of those annoying cunts who says "have a nice day" when then serve you coffee might think differently

Have a listenView attachment Scale Examples.mp3
 
don't forget that modal playing is just one approach to scales, you'll very rarely ever have to play locrian and phrygian, idge not saying you shouldn't learn them but something to bear in mind, the main modes that are actually USED in music are: Ionian, Dorian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, and if you never play jazz or folk it's arguable that you'd never ever need to know them, only learn what you need to know for your style of music.
 
Btyre2013 said:
don't forget that modal playing is just one approach to scales, you'll very rarely ever have to play locrian and phrygian, idge not saying you shouldn't learn them but something to bear in mind, the main modes that are actually USED in music are: Ionian, Dorian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, and if you never play jazz or folk it's arguable that you'd never ever need to know them, only learn what you need to know for your style of music.
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I agree. In fact most of what you'll probably do playing punk and punky rock and roll will be using Aeolian or Ionian anyway. You will still use all of the other modal scale shapes so that you can move around the fretboard more easily but you won't actually be using that mode.

If you're worried about sounding like Steve Vai avoid actually using the Lydian mode too, I've tried using Locrian a few times; it either sounds like Greig, black metal or shit depending on your point of view.

I actually use Aeolian mode about 90% of the time. Not 'cos I am conciously thinking about it; just 'cos I had worked this mode out for myself all the way up and down the fretboard before I knew what modes and modal shapes were.

Now get outta bed, lazy-arse; its 7:30AM in Texas - you've got a day of serious musical study ahead of you!
 
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If you're just playing the same goddamn motherfucking notes no matter what bitch ass motherfucking "mode" you're in, what makes them sound different?

What makes you think "ok I'm playing a C, A minor, F, G, D#, and a B. So what modes do I use"?
 
Greg_L said:
If you're just playing the same goddamn motherfucking notes no matter what bitch ass motherfucking "mode" you're in, what makes them sound different?

What makes you think "ok I'm playing a C, A minor, F, G, D#, and a B. So what modes do I use"?
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Probably a little confusing between "Mode" and "Modal Shape"

Modal shapes are the scales that I posted the tab for at the start.

So, if my song is in E Minor and I want to play E Aeolian as I usually do I place the root of my E Aeolian on the 12th Fret. This will place my Locrian shape on Fret 14, my Mixolidian shape on Fret 10, Lidian 8, Phygian 7, Dorian 5 and Ionian on Fret 3. But 'cos they're all on their different frets in relation to my E Aeolian - ALL - of the shapes are now playing the Aeolian scale all over the fretboard.

If you were Steve Vai and wanted to play in E Lydian - you'd move everything up the fretboard until the root of your Lydian scale is at E on the 12th fret and now they all become E Lydian. You getting it now? Its a bit of a mind bender at first but you get used to it pretty quick.

The Modal "shapes" are just a teaching tool. Breaking this massive scale which spans the whole fretboard into 7 usable chunks that you can practice in one place then stick them together afterwards.
 
Why would you want to play Aeolian? Why would you want to play Lydian? What makes you decide "I'm playing this mode shape thing?"

And wtf is E Aeolian? Is it an E major scale that starts from the 6th note of that scale? C#?

If I knew the reasoning behind these decisions I think it could start to come together. It seems so arbitrary right now because it's just stupid sounding names. If I can't see the why people do these things, it will never make sense to me.
 
Which one you choose is down to the structure of the chord sequence and the feel you want it to have.
Your chords there are C, Am, F, G etc. Those four are on the C Ionian (Major) and A Aeolian (Minor) scales - just like the clip I posted earlier.

View attachment Gregs Chords.mp3

So the same shapes as I put in the example this morning will work with your chord sequence. I'm not sure about the D# B bit - this will probably sound fucked - but then it is punk rock.
 
Greg_L said:
Why would you want to play Aeolian? Why would you want to play Lydian? What makes you decide "I'm playing this mode shape thing?"
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Greg, 9 times out of 10 playing rock, grunge, punk etc you'll want Ionian or Aeolian - basic minor and major scales.
 
But C, A, F, and G are in every "C" mode, are they not? Why use C Ionian or C Aeolian instead of C Phrygian or C Midol-whatever the fuck it is?
 
JDOD said:
Probably a little confusing between "Mode" and "Modal Shape"

Modal shapes are the scales that I posted the tab for at the start.

So, if my song is in E Minor and I want to play E Aeolian as I usually do I place the root of my E Aeolian on the 12th Fret. This will place my Locrian shape on Fret 14, my Mixolidian shape on Fret 10, Lidian 8, Phygian 7, Dorian 5 and Ionian on Fret 3. But 'cos they're all on their different frets in relation to my E Aeolian - ALL - of the shapes are now playing the Aeolian scale all over the fretboard.

If you were Steve Vai and wanted to play in E Lydian - you'd move everything up the fretboard until the root of your Lydian scale is at E on the 12th fret and now they all become E Lydian. You getting it now? Its a bit of a mind bender at first but you get used to it pretty quick.

The Modal "shapes" are just a teaching tool. Breaking this massive scale which spans the whole fretboard into 7 usable chunks that you can practice in one place then stick them together afterwards.
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I know you are having a conversation with teh gerg, but thanks for having it publicly. This particular post was just an "ah-ha" moment for me.
 
That was a bit flipant - but try them out. I'm pretty sure they'll sound shit.

Btyre2013 can probably explain more why - I've got a pretty shit ear my musician's standards and he's studied music.

When I want to play some lead I find the mode I like the sound of then work out from there - I don't rigidly stick with it - but it gives you some rules to find a starting point then you can find a way of breaking the rules. Also, when you've worked out a good "mode" that works with the song this little bit of modal theory will then open up the whole fretboard for you to adlib on.
 
kindafishy said:
I know you are having a conversation with teh gerg, but thanks for having it publicly. This particular post was just an "ah-ha" moment for me.
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Cheers mate, I was gonna take it to PM but I figured I'm not the only one who finds this new, difficult and interesting.

I'm looking forward to Btyre2013's response - I'd like to know if there's way of using these modes more creatively than just seeing which one I think sounds good (nearly always turns out to be Aeolian for me).
 
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