Tears And Mascara - the first post-Jongleurs Jongleurs song...

[Armistice]

... if that makes sense...

Short story. I wrote it, other guy sang it, had it all tracked instrumentally, other guy (temporarily, one hopes) pulls plug on band, so I thought bugger you, I'll sing it myself.. and so I did... and here we are. He never played on it, so it's all me.

First mix... have heard it too much now to have any shred of objectivity left...

Tears And Mascara - Armistice (320MP3)

Any and all comments welcome... it's a big production number... be warned... ...and only 2 acoustic guitars, but up to 9 electrics, all playing at once...


TEARS AND MASCARA

Hey panda girl, didn't anybody tell you that tears and mascara don't mix?
You may think an earthquake is shaking your world but it's nothing a little time won't fix
It's so damp in here from all of your crying that the furniture's starting to rot
And hey panda girl, you may think you're dying, but I'm pretty sure that you're not
And hey. Hey

Hey panda girl, this room's so full of tissues you know you really should clean up this mess
You used to go on about deforestation, well every tissue box is one tree less
Hey just a second, was that the start of a smile? Be careful you'll disrupt the dark
And hey panda girl, if you don't quit crying, I'm gonna build me an ark
And hey. Hey.

MUSICKY BIT

Hey panda girl, if I must save the animals, then which ones am I going to take?
Might borrow a Bible to get a few clues, try not to make Noah's mistake
You know what I'm thinking, I'll just save the pandas 'cause they'll always remind me of you
'cause you won't be there girl, you're causing the flood, so you can't be on the boat too
Hey, just a minute, this is getting way too complex, at the time it seemed the idea!
There's probably not much more I can say now, but better luck, better luck next time my dear
My dear, my dear, my dear

ANOTHER MUSICKY BIT

Better luck next time my dear, better luck next time my dear
Better luck next time my dear, better luck next time my dear.....



*Armistice falls on the floor... exhausted*

 

[jiff 41]

This is a great song,
If there is such a thing as the OZ sound you got it, the good thing is when your mate hears this he'll know you can do it without him.
The sound is layed-back & has a great sense of space & for me ticks all the boxes.
More, More QUICKLY!

 

[dobro]

Good tune, good lyrics. The drums seem to be in a different space, but I guess you can't take any of that space off them, cuz they were recorded that way, right? The vocal's a bit hard to hear, too. Turn it up or something. Don't be shy.

Really like this one. I think the music matches the sentiment to a sweet tee.

 

[fritsthegirl]

You see, that's why I don't wear mascara, to avoid some bastard taking the piss out of me later. Very lovely & great tune Armi, I really, really loved it. Your playing is amazing, and you've got such a great voice, dunno why you'd ever want anyone else to sing on your tunes really?

If there is such a thing as the OZ sound you got it.

I reckon that as well, think I might have said something similar after your last tune.

 

[Armistice]

Good tune, good lyrics. The drums seem to be in a different space, but I guess you can't take any of that space off them, cuz they were recorded that way, right? The vocal's a bit hard to hear, too. Turn it up or something. Don't be shy.

Really like this one. I think the music matches the sentiment to a sweet tee.

Thanks dobro.... I've reworked the snare drum sound and move a few hits around.. as when I was listening to it on my stereo I thought "that is about the worst snare I've ever heard" - it's a bit more in the same space now, but I daresay I'll be playing more with it... snare drums are the bane of my life..!!!

Thanks for listening...

 

[Armistice]

This is a great song,
If there is such a thing as the OZ sound you got it, the good thing is when your mate hears this he'll know you can do it without him.
The sound is layed-back & has a great sense of space & for me ticks all the boxes.
More, More QUICKLY!

LOL... yeah, I'm going to be interested to hear his view on this one.... I've posted it on the band Facebook page....

Thanks for listening. Glad you liked it!

 

[Armistice]

You see, that's why I don't wear mascara, to avoid some bastard taking the piss out of me later. Very lovely & great tune Armi, I really, really loved it. Your playing is amazing, and you've got such a great voice, dunno why you'd ever want anyone else to sing on your tunes really?



I reckon that as well, think I might have said something similar after your last tune.

Thanks FTG ( as I saw someone call you the other day )... I'm getting a big head re. the voice thing... if you saw what I had to do to get it to sound half decent, you'd be horrified... I'm sure.

New file up now has better snare drum, to dobro's point above and I moved a hit here and there in some of the fills....ah, the luxury of MIDI drums... almost makes up for the pain of having to program them all in the first place...

I like this song too... 'twas always one of my favourites. Thanks for listening...

 

[dobro]

MIDI drums? Wow, you had me fooled. Yeah, the new one's better. And it's a sure sign when a second and third listening sound better than the first. Just an idea: what's it sound like if you put a bigger space on the vocal and turn it up a bit? Turning it up would make it more dominant, but the space would push it back into the mix a bit. Really liking this one.

 

[heatmiser]

Wow. I can't imagine the work that went into doing this. It all sounds really well thought out and well arranged. The performances are excellent. I always like a nice, long, mellow 3/4 jam myself.

I listened last night but I was kind of lit, so I didn't trust myself to give feedback. I didn't care for the snare jumping out the way it did then. Listening today, it sounds better, but still a little disjointed - like the snare is just all by itself in the center of the mix and not so much integrated with everything else. I think there's a kick (?) but if so, I was only picking it up as a heart beat kind of thump with no attack.

I guess overall I found the mix to be kind of dark, but one man's dark is another man's warm, so who knows?

I would like your lead vocals to be more present and up front. I'm hearing them as dropped back with the electrics and stuff. I get the percussive, strummy sounds of the acoustics coming through on either side really clearly, but wished that the vocals had some of that same hi-mid energy so they popped out a bit more. I don't know, maybe I'm not explaining it well. It's a good mix, I just think it could be better for you.

Again, the song is really well done though. I just think you could do more to get the drums to fit (bring up the cymbals too?) and I think your vocals deserve a more prominent, brighter place in this mix.

 

[Armistice]

Wow. I can't imagine the work that went into doing this. It all sounds really well thought out and well arranged. The performances are excellent. I always like a nice, long, mellow 3/4 jam myself.

I listened last night but I was kind of lit, so I didn't trust myself to give feedback. I didn't care for the snare jumping out the way it did then. Listening today, it sounds better, but still a little disjointed - like the snare is just all by itself in the center of the mix and not so much integrated with everything else. I think there's a kick (?) but if so, I was only picking it up as a heart beat kind of thump with no attack.

I guess overall I found the mix to be kind of dark, but one man's dark is another man's warm, so who knows?

I would like your lead vocals to be more present and up front. I'm hearing them as dropped back with the electrics and stuff. I get the percussive, strummy sounds of the acoustics coming through on either side really clearly, but wished that the vocals had some of that same hi-mid energy so they popped out a bit more. I don't know, maybe I'm not explaining it well. It's a good mix, I just think it could be better for you.

Again, the song is really well done though. I just think you could do more to get the drums to fit (bring up the cymbals too?) and I think your vocals deserve a more prominent, brighter place in this mix.

Thanks Heat.... problem is I don't have my studio set up for mixing at the moment... it's ok for tracking but when I mix I move everything out to the lounge and get it away from walls etc, but I didn't do that because I'm just a bit lazy at the moment.... so I burned a copy on CD and listened to it in the car on the way to a mate's place last night and I'm like "OMG, the snare is just taking my head off and where did the lead vocal go!???" so yep, I'm hearing exactly what you're saying... I'd actually turned the kick down but yep it's got to come up a bit... and bass down a touch too I reckon. It's a pretty complex mix so getting the balance is proving tough... but I'm up at 7am on a Sunday morning (I must be nuts) and am about to throw myself back into it...

I'm vaguely horrified I put it up at all in this condition... That'll learn me!

Definitely still stuff to do on the drums, generally, too. Thanks for listening...

 

[Armistice]

MIDI drums? Wow, you had me fooled. Yeah, the new one's better. And it's a sure sign when a second and third listening sound better than the first. Just an idea: what's it sound like if you put a bigger space on the vocal and turn it up a bit? Turning it up would make it more dominant, but the space would push it back into the mix a bit. Really liking this one.

thanks dobro... funny thing is I went and "dried up" a lot of stuff as it was getting too reverby, but I think I've gone too far... especially on the vocal.. going to do just that this morning. Yeah, MIDI drums... but I do work at them to make them sound as unMIDI as possible, takes forever.... oh to be a drummer!

 

[Lt. Bob]

nice ..... me likey.

Weren't the Jongleurs a duo?

EDIT ......... I really like it a lot.

I rarely give mix comments unless something really sticks out because there are simply a zillion ways to mix anything and any of them might be good.
This is good stuff here.

 

[ap]

Love the background vocals. How'd you record that?

Drums are pretty much not there but I guess you know that. If you're having trouble with a good space, mics, or whatever just use samples from software or an electronic brain if you can afford it. I don't understand why so many people insist on acoustic drums. Sure you can usually tell they're samples esp cymbals, but it sounds a bajillion times better than a crappily recorded kit.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Drums are pretty much not there but I guess you know that. If you're having trouble with a good space, mics, or whatever just use samples from software or an electronic brain if you can afford it. I don't understand why so many people insist on acoustic drums. Sure you can usually tell they're samples esp cymbals, but it sounds a bajillion times better than a crappily recorded kit.

ummmm ..... they're NOT acoustic drums.

....ah, the luxury of MIDI drums... almost makes up for the pain of having to program them all in the first place...

 

[TheAquired]

wow.. this has to be one of my favourite ever songs I've heard on this website. I really like it. I'm surprised you need a separate singer, if I could sing like this, I would be doing it all myself! SO all in all, really awesome stuff.

So how did you get such realistic MIDI drums? You seem to have that down to a fine art

 

[Armistice]

OK... new, better, improved mix just uploaded... sort of want to ask you all to go back and have another listen.... snare under control at last, I think...

Whoops... didn't see a few more comments there.

 

[Armistice]

nice ..... me likey.

Weren't the Jongleurs a duo?

EDIT ......... I really like it a lot.

I rarely give mix comments unless something really sticks out because there are simply a zillion ways to mix anything and any of them might be good.
This is good stuff here.

Thanks LT... yeah we were a duo, and who knows, perhaps we still are... the other guy wanted a break... sounded like the sort of thing you say to your girlfriend though to me - I recognised the line.... so who knows what will happen. I'm giving him space for a few months... he's a new daddy, other priorities etc. I get it. What will be, will be...

Thanks for listening!

 

[Armistice]

Love the background vocals. How'd you record that?

Drums are pretty much not there but I guess you know that. If you're having trouble with a good space, mics, or whatever just use samples from software or an electronic brain if you can afford it. I don't understand why so many people insist on acoustic drums. Sure you can usually tell they're samples esp cymbals, but it sounds a bajillion times better than a crappily recorded kit.

Thanks for listening ap... yeah, they actually are MIDI drums already, and they're always the toughest thing to get right... and the snare drum is the worst... but I think I've got it happening a bit better now... when I get down to deciding upon whether a particular hit sounds better with velocity 93 rather than 94 I know I'm getting right into the detail! Have another listen if you can stand it. See if you think they're better....

The background vocals was just me trying different lines against the main vocal once I had that done... and there's two of everything, sung separately, panned left and right, which gives it that big sound. I'm an average vocalist at best, so it takes a while to get takes where I'm not warbling off key too much...

The song has also been played live a zillion times so over the years we'd worked out the main lines we'd sing... even if there were only two of us. I used to use a looper and sing a few other lines in at times as well...

 

[Armistice]

wow.. this has to be one of my favourite ever songs I've heard on this website. I really like it. I'm surprised you need a separate singer, if I could sing like this, I would be doing it all myself! SO all in all, really awesome stuff.

So how did you get such realistic MIDI drums? You seem to have that down to a fine art

Hey thanks... big compliment!

With the drums, it's a matter of mapping out some patterns and then deliberately moving away from the patterns and making each couple of bars different from all the other ones that started out the same, in some subtle way.. lots of subtle double stacking of a rimshot or a touch of stick with snare hits... the occasional rattle (whatever that thing is when your bounce it on the drum a few times after the main hit) and practice. It's a work in progress, I try to get more "real" each tune, but I'm not a drummer and don't necessarily know what a drummer would actually do in any particular spot, so it's a slow process.

Also, with ride cymbals in particular, stacking again with a touch of different hits against the main cymbal to make them all sound just a little different, like hitting the thing in different places does.. I don't know the terms.

It's hard work, basically, but it can be done.

Thanks for listening and if you want to go back and listen now you should hear the drums a bit more integrated, the snare a bit less in the "take your head off" zone...

 

[ap]

Ok, so you're like a midi drum programming master. Very impressive. Does sound better than I remembered but still not loving it. Maybe the problem I'm having is the reverb on the snare sample. It just sounds like it was recorded from a distance in a small room which might be fine in the right context but everything else has a nice ambience so it just doesn't fit. What samples and software are you using? Like the kick. cymbals are nice too if maybe a bit washed out but great for samples which usually their weakest spot.