Tascam M520 - noisy channel on/off switches.

ethyrvalve

Norman Nanoweber
Hi,
I haven't been around in a while. I hope you're all well.
I just have a quick question:
Does anyone have a solution for the noise that comes from the channel on-off switches in a M520/512 console? I'd like to use them like mutes during some mixes but they develop crackles quite easily. Cleaning and exercising the switches helps, but i'd like a permanent solution if possible.
Could a strategically placed capacitor help?
Or is there a superior part out there that i could solder in?

Thanks in advance for any input folks.
 
Hi,
I haven't been around in a while. I hope you're all well.
I just have a quick question:
Does anyone have a solution for the noise that comes from the channel on-off switches in a M520/512 console? I'd like to use them like mutes during some mixes but they develop crackles quite easily. Cleaning and exercising the switches helps, but i'd like a permanent solution if possible.
Could a strategically placed capacitor help?
Or is there a superior part out there that i could solder in?

Thanks in advance for any input folks.

The only thing I can think of is to clean the switches. I have the same problem on my M-520. Does the problem persist after cleaning the switches?
 
I doubt you can expect silience when turning a channel on and off even if you loose the crackles. My console is only 2 years old and it will pop when I turn on any channel. I mean, you're powering up a channel and preamp circuit.

I haven't used my good ole M series consoles in years but I doubt they would be silent when turning on a channel either. Maybe someone will prove me wrong. But it's is just not the same as mute.
 
The only thing I can think of is to clean the switches. I have the same problem on my M-520. Does the problem persist after cleaning the switches?
Unfortunately, yes. I can never seem to get them clean enough to stay quiet. I even keep the board under a dust cover when not in use..
 
I doubt you can expect silience when turning a channel on and off even if you loose the crackles. My console is only 2 years old and it will pop when I turn on any channel. I mean, you're powering up a channel and preamp circuit.

I haven't used my good ole M series consoles in years but I doubt they would be silent when turning on a channel either. Maybe someone will prove me wrong. But it's is just not the same as mute.

I think you're right...
And it's too bad... when I've had the chance to see people mix with, say an MCI, they would often use the channel mutes.
That said, aside from this channel switching noise and the sound of the EQ, I still love this board.
 
Hope you are well.

It is indeed a great board.

Consider using the ASSIGN switches for mutes.

I've been able to get it pretty quiet using the ON switches after forcing DeoxIT D5 at the side of the switch body. There are some small holes there where the parts of the body snap together. You can flood the innards and then exercise it like 100 times. I *think* it helps, but, yeah, not quite enough for critical mix use.
 
Hope you are well.

It is indeed a great board.

Consider using the ASSIGN switches for mutes.

I've been able to get it pretty quiet using the ON switches after forcing DeoxIT D5 at the side of the switch body. There are some small holes there where the parts of the body snap together. You can flood the innards and then exercise it like 100 times. I *think* it helps, but, yeah, not quite enough for critical mix use.

Are there muting transistors anywhere in the circuit? If so, they may be going bad.
 
Okay, I took a closer look at this, and beware that what I'm going to say is coming from an unschooled novice with a demonstrative ability to be a complete dumba**, but the ON button doesn't interrupt power to the strip. The ON button schematically is more like a traditional muting switch in that it simply interrupts the post EQ signal coming off of U7 to the group assign switches as well as any post-fade enabled AUX busses...and the stereo SOLO-in-place buss. That being said there appears to be nothing fancy in there like a muting transistor or some such thing...its a hard-contact switch right in line with the signal path and that's it. The unfortaunate thing here that I can see is that U7 is a 4556 chip...it can output, like, up to 70mA which is relatively huge and Teac put that particular chip there because that one opamp has the potential to have to simultaneously push 14 busses (8 groups, 4 auxes and the stereo SOLO buss)...not that you would, under normal circumstances, be sending one input to all those places at once, but Teac did the smart thing in selecting the 4556 for that application and engineered for the potential drive needed from U7 if you were to open up all those busses. Better to be able to drive all 14 paths than get all distorty and whatnot.

SO...my point? There's just a lot of drive potential at the ON switch and there's really no way around it. I wonder if a cap could be put there to buffer the signal, but then you'd have a cap there buffering the signal. :drunk:

Actually, wait...there's already a cap there...look at C35...that's a 22uF/25V cap on the output of pin 1 of U7...you might try cleaning the ON switch really good as I described (not trying to dribble cleaner in from the top but inject it from the side) and replace C35 with a good quality 105-degree cap and see...if C35 is getting dry I can imagine hitting the ON switch will be more like shooting a hole at a shaken-up bottle of soda rather than slowly opening the screw-on cap...that's an exaggeration but you get the idea...I really like the Nichicon KT series caps...105-degree and designed for audio...easy on the wallet too.

I seem to recall that on the 4-strip module in my M-520 that had been totally recapped/cleaned/gone-through the noise present when switching the strips on and off was better, but there was still some *clicking* and *ticking* when working the ON switch.

Is there any difference when you try it with the EQ switched off and the aux busses switched pre-fader?

Also, did you try doing it at the ASSIGN switch(es) instead of the ON switch?
 
Thanks for the intrepid investigative work Cory!!
RE the assign switches, I did try them at times and I think they may be quieter. The only catch is the fact that I have to click two at a time (unless, of course, I use my Ampex AG 350 for a mono mix).
I'm going to try giving those switches a real thorough cleaning like you mentioned. I must confess, i've only been 'flooding' them from the top.
I'll experiment to see if the EQ affects the click. Truth be told, I try to avoid using that EQ so I'm pretty sure the clicks are evident even with it bypassed. The EQ is my least favourite part of the board. Someone over at groupdiy.com started a Studer 169 EQ project for API lunchboxes. It looks like it might be a relatively inexpensive way to solve my EQ blues (i currently have a pretty sad looking lunchbox with only one occupied slot).
 
Hey...at least you have an API lunchbox. Really cool "bit of kit".

Yeah, I don't knock you for trying to clean from the top considering it is not easy to get at them from the side, but if you do go that route you'll see what I mean...there's a spot on the side where a tab locks in (holding the switch casing together) and if you hold the straw of a can of DeoxIT D5 to the spot and gently press the valve on the can you can actually hear it (and see it) filling the switch cavity up and then click-click-click away...it may help. It doesn't take much. I'd be really interested though what would happen if you replaced C35 on one of those channels.

I wasn't thinking about having to hit two (or more) assign switches...:o I was thinking of a source routed to a single buss during multitracking and not during mastering. That would be difficult to get them just right.
 
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