Tape vs digital with a new song

[FrankD77]

Don't get me wrong I love digital.
I love plugins, but I do prefer the old vintage FX gear and tube amps so why not use both

For storage I was brought up on tape, in the studio we used 8 tracks recorders, a disaster with calibrations and tape wore out, but it sounded awesome (well what I remember).
I tried some things with old reel2reel tapes but they sounded more lo-fi than lo-fi should.
A S-VHS tape did something great, but that was more in the range of great for sound quality but it doesn't add anything.

So when my wife stumbled on my old Yamaha KX630, which we though sold years ago. I decided to clean the heads, get a c90 tape and try something different.

I didn't want it to be a "here is the same version on both".
Digital will probably win from a C90 cassette.
But what if....

Start with a RAW file.
One version using the mastering tool from Logic Pro and just save it like I would normally with only very small adjustments.
And dump the RAW file to tape, and route it back via on old IntellifexII (yes from Behringer) and than run the same mastering tool in logic.
Of course you would get two completely different mixes, but which one would I prefer....

And which one do you ?
Which one do you think is digital and which one is tape.

Something completely different - Frank Doorhof

Just for fun something completely different today, how does a recording sound on tape vs digital.... it's different that's for sure.

frankdoorhof.com

I do link to my photography website because I can store the WAV files there, it's not meant as advertising or whatever, Music is my hobby/passion and I share regularly on the blog about it.
If it's not allowed feel free to remove my post.

 

[Papanate]

The second one sounds like Logic to me.

 

[FrankD77]

Ps you can always pm me for the answer.

 

[TascamJimi]

Another one of those posts where I'm supposed to be listening to the recording and after 30 seconds I'm digging the music and forgetting my ' critical' thinking cap !! To my ears the second is obviously digital, but who cares the material is great !!! You got a killer guitar sound on there !!!
I have an old Sony D-6C that I used to record 100's of live shows throughout the 80-90's before going digital in my taping rig. I might have to dig that out for a similar experiment !! I used to love that thing, but tape flips mid show always sucked !!! :O)

 

[TalismanRich]

I'm with PapaNate here. The second one sounds like the digital mix. The first one sounds like the upper frequencies are down, which gives the impression of lots more bottom if you get the volumes more equal. That makes it sound warm and fat. and everyone knows that warm and fat is the way, right? (not necessarily my preference). It also doesn't have the distinct separation that the second one does, which tape tends to do since the crosstalk is always lower than digital.

As I'm 400 miles from home, I only have some Sony Earbuds to use for judging, but it sounds pretty distinct to me.

 

[TalismanRich]

Don't get me wrong I love digital.
I love plugins, but I do prefer the old vintage FX gear and tube amps so why not use both

For storage I was brought up on tape, in the studio we used 8 tracks recorders, a disaster with calibrations and tape wore out, but it sounded awesome (well what I remember).
I tried some things with old reel2reel tapes but they sounded more lo-fi than lo-fi should.
A S-VHS tape did something great, but that was more in the range of great for sound quality but it doesn't add anything.

The problem I had with tape was that as a storage medium is was "one shot", and I'm not even thinking of sticky shed problems. I had several cases of tapes in the basement when the water came up about 18 inches. All of those boxes were lost, along with the content. Since then, things that were not ruined have been transferred to digital, and I've got multiple copies in different places. I also had boxes of 35mm slides that were totally ruined.

 

[FrankD77]

Thanks for the replies.
I personally prefer number 1 which is the tape.

The thing that surprised me is that both were done with the mastering tool in logic and i adjusted from there like I would normally do. I expected some highs en lows but i actually like the guitars better on the tape.

I have to say the intellifexII made a pretty big impact in the low frequenties and spread.

Think I'm going to hunt for some better tapes

 

[RFR]

I like #1
For some reason the drums sound better. But that aside, #1 is more pleasing to my ear overall.

Same mix on both versions? I think #2 is the digital.

 

[FrankD77]

Same mix only difference is the intellifexII and mastering (logic owns mastering with on both very minor adjustments)

Both were normalized during export. So that one i will check as soon as I have the time

 

[rob aylestone]

I wonder if the success is that all the action is well below tape cutoff frequency. We are so used to all the HF stuff above 6-8K that we now have the bad habot of believing quality = HF busyness. My hearing falls away gradually because I'm old, but usually the top HF I do have makes the tape based HF sound 'wrong'. Your mix seems to work on both, and while they are different, both, to me are good mixes and I could not hand on heart make my usual analogue/digital instant decision. You have a product crafted specially with the medium in mind, and most people (including me) don't tend to do that anymore. You have proved exactly why analogue and vinyl and tape are having a resurgence. Clever people releasing perfect choices of music on them.

 

[FrankD77]

I wonder if the success is that all the action is well below tape cutoff frequency. We are so used to all the HF stuff above 6-8K that we now have the bad habot of believing quality = HF busyness. My hearing falls away gradually because I'm old, but usually the top HF I do have makes the tape based HF sound 'wrong'. Your mix seems to work on both, and while they are different, both, to me are good mixes and I could not hand on heart make my usual analogue/digital instant decision. You have a product crafted specially with the medium in mind, and most people (including me) don't tend to do that anymore. You have proved exactly why analogue and vinyl and tape are having a resurgence. Clever people releasing perfect choices of music on them.

Thanks and indeed. I did not want to compare quality. Thats easy it's digital.

But what about vibe and feel and when using it creatively. With the tape version i find nyself moving with the riffs. On the digital I'm listening differently. And i wondered what that would do if you use the media as an instrument instead of just storage.

It actually surprised me a lot.
I'm always sensitive for too harsh guitars. (love Vai for example) and tape seems to make the guitars a lot more friendly but also more "glued" in the mix while with digital i found myself adjusting more to get it to sound friendly instead of "vibe"

 

[rob aylestone]

Hmmm I wonder if you just subconsciously did versions 'coloured' by your knowledge of what they were? Like maybe when you know a mix will be used for a certain purpose, or you've mixed it for a particular audience? So not a taoe or digital mix, but an 'technical' mix for digits and maybe a remix for guitar fans? Like when drummers mix music - their perspective has always been from behind a kit, so subtle elements are lost and the focus of the mic changes. Or maybe brass players who have only ever heard their trumpet from being behind it? I cannot quite tell which is which - they're difficult. I got it right, but they difference was obvious but sort of unlabelled? I'm not doing very well explainin g it in words.

 

[FrankD77]

I think that was also for me the challenge
Just testing what is best is no fun.

But working with a Raw mix i expected it to be minute in difference. When i use the mastering plugin from logic there is always a bit i change.

The results vary however so much it actually caught me by surprise. But take the intellifexII out and the mix really collapses. On the digital mix I'm using a digital version of the Edison (which i also have in rack version and sounds awesome).

Besides the levels i also feel the balance is different and the guitars are totally different.

It gives me loads of ideas
And it's super cheap.

 

[FrankD77]

Did a soundlevel check and uploaded newly balanced tracks (only volume)

 

[TascamJimi]

because I'm somewhat 'new' to this home recording.... my getting back into it after 20-25 years quite a shocker..... that's a long, long time in gear speak !! ( What do you mean people hardly use amps and cabs anymore ? ) LOL .... Anyway... I can't comment on all the ' technical' DAW speak... but I did want to ask how you got that guitar sound. That's a great tone....closing in on the ' Brown Sound ' all us lunatic guitar players are always looking for !
Great Job !!
Jim

 

[FrankD77]

Thanks man thats way too much honor.

I also started again after a very long hiatus and decided to go the digital way. But the drives where never what i liked. So i went 100% tube or tube pre- and a 8080 valvestate

At the moment I'm using a legacy drive into the power section of a line 6 bogner spyervalve
This goes into a torpedo x and genome where I use two Big Hairy Guitar cabs from the Steve vai collection. (they make a huge difference).

I also have a cab with black backs from my youth which sound awesome but the IR cabs are easier because you can change sounds very easily later when the mix is growing.

FX is mostly 19" vintage cheap fx units
On this track it's a lexicon Alex on drums and a mx300 on the rest.

Pitch detune effects are the x32 or digitech 2101/s400.

On the digital version im using an Edison on the master and on the tape version an intellifex II.