LocusLarsen
New member
Too bad I can't do reverse on the smiley faces
Too bad I can't do reverse on the smiley faces
MISTERQCUE
Not Just Anutha Brutha
Though I'm an ADAT & HD user (Alesis), my 1st recorder was the Tascam 4-sumthin'-4!
I've alway's luv'd analog R-2-R and cassette based recording formats!
I'm old skool!!
I've alway's luv'd analog R-2-R and cassette based recording formats!
I'm old skool!!
jake-owa
Banned
Digital sucks for distortion. All kinds subtle and outrageous. I will take a Pod recording onto tape over a miced guitar recorded digitally. Tape smooths things out in a natural way.
LocusLarsen
New member
I haven't even gotten around to trying my Roland VS onto tape. I love some of the sounds it puts out digitally. But my main thing is my acoustic guitar. I kept hearing about the "magical" qualities tape has on acoutic guitar. But I didn't realize it was THAT magical. I am don't see myself going back to digital anytime soon. I hear a quality 24 bit A/D will keep the warmth if I import into digital, but thats down the road.
Shailat
New member
To put a damper on this post 
As someone who has used "2" for most of his recording career I'm just showing you the other side...
Anal-ug Doesnt work when:
* It has worn heads
* It has a small width track
* needs to be re-Biased all the time
* Needs clean/new heads
* Needs to be demagnetized
* Needs to have the reel tension as well as break tension adjusted
* Loses high freqs as you play it again and again and overdub again and again
* Media Costs a lot of money and each "2" will hold up to 3-4 songs.
* Needs good temperature to last
* Analog hiss....Not a good thing
* Maintenance.....every day...every day....every...%*#$^*#(&
As someone who has used "2" for most of his recording career I'm just showing you the other side...
Anal-ug Doesnt work when:
* It has worn heads
* It has a small width track
* needs to be re-Biased all the time
* Needs clean/new heads
* Needs to be demagnetized
* Needs to have the reel tension as well as break tension adjusted
* Loses high freqs as you play it again and again and overdub again and again
* Media Costs a lot of money and each "2" will hold up to 3-4 songs.
* Needs good temperature to last
* Analog hiss....Not a good thing
* Maintenance.....every day...every day....every...%*#$^*#(&
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Tape Fuckin' Rules, man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
tjohnston
New member
How about incorporating both analog and digital? As a newbie I dont know much. I can tell you one thing though. The acoustic guitar Ive heard recorded in the digital domain sounds like this. clink clink dink dink dink. ping ping.
I guess people call that overly bright or harsh. Any way it irritates me. There has got to be away around that.
I guess people call that overly bright or harsh. Any way it irritates me. There has got to be away around that.
LocusLarsen
New member
Re: To put a damper on this post
Well, this thing is 30 years old, never been cleaned, demagnatized or anything. I would absolutly LOVE to hear one that has
Shailat said:
Well, this thing is 30 years old, never been cleaned, demagnatized or anything. I would absolutly LOVE to hear one that has
S
scottr
New member
tjohnston said:
Go on tape or mic further or try different pres and mics and miking positions, etc.
What do people think about mixing down from digital onto tape, as opposed to tracking individual instruments to tape. Like just the final left-right?
Scott
GT
New member
Tape doesn't rock!!
Tape wows, flutters, and hisses.
GT
Tape wows, flutters, and hisses.
GT
regebro
Insane Genious!
tjohnston said:
Mic position is most important. Also, try using an SM57, they are nice and warm. And if that doesn't help, use an SM57 AND a tube preamp.
H
Hawking
New member
For all the people who just love that analog tape "warmth"...
Pick out your favourite CD that you know was recorded or mastered on tape. Put it in your CD player and listen very carefully. You can hear the subtle qualities of the tape coming through. The mellowness of the distortion. The gentle saturation when the tape is pushed just a little beyond its design limits. Wonderful isn't it?
Now look at the CD player its playing on. Or stare at your computer screen if it's an MP3. You're listening to digital. And 16 bit digital at that. Tape or analog has nothing to do with it. It's the quality of the equipment being used. If you don't get the nice warm sound you're looking for when you plug into your Soundblaster soudcard with an SM57 to record your acoustic guitar or a grand piano, don't be surprised. Try using some professional gear, and I don't mean the "Prosumer" stuff floating around for amazingly low prices. Untill you've spent countless thousands of dollars and countless hundreds of hours building a custom compressor from scratch for one mixdown just to get that perfect sound, you can't really say digital sucks or analog is better or analog sucks, or whatever your opinion is. If your best microphone cost you $100, or you don't restring your guitar every day while tracking, you are simply using the word 'digital' as an excuse for why you don't get the perfect sound.
There are professional studios all over the world that still use analog. There are just a many, if not more, that use digital. There are some that use both. I learned on reel to reel and a mixing board that didn't have a mouse. I'm glad I did. If I want that analog sound and I'm really feeling motivated, I can still find my way around an old Fostex. For the most part though, the advantages of digital far outweigh the benefit of tape.
You say "Analog has that 'sound'". Well, I have plugins that can reproduce that "sound" without all the hiss, noise, lack of dynamic headroom, and maintainance of tape.
I think that the analog domain is more forgiving. You can push it beyond its limit without much thought about harsh clipping. The tape hiss can cover up mistakes. That 'warmness' everyone loves so much is actually a flaw. No electrical engineer in their right mind would purposely design a recorder that simply ignored the high frequency realm. But that's what analog tape does. Digital is more revealing, more accurate of the real sound being recorded. 24 bit digital far surpasses analog in frequency response, dynamic range, ease of use, durability and consistancy.
Done right, with the right equipment, digital recording can get you better results for less money and less work. I'm not saying that there's no place for tape any more. But just like we all want to drive a new car that's better, faster, quieter, and more efficient than the last one, we should'nt shy away from digital just because the methods involved in using it are a little different. I like classic cars. I just wouldn't want to drive one to work every single day. No airbag, no antilock brakes, no A/C, no fuel injection and horrible fuel milage is fine for the weekend cruise, but I think I'll make my commute in the comfort, efficiency and relative safety of a modern car.
OK, I'm done venting. I eagerly await your harsh replies.
Pick out your favourite CD that you know was recorded or mastered on tape. Put it in your CD player and listen very carefully. You can hear the subtle qualities of the tape coming through. The mellowness of the distortion. The gentle saturation when the tape is pushed just a little beyond its design limits. Wonderful isn't it?
Now look at the CD player its playing on. Or stare at your computer screen if it's an MP3. You're listening to digital. And 16 bit digital at that. Tape or analog has nothing to do with it. It's the quality of the equipment being used. If you don't get the nice warm sound you're looking for when you plug into your Soundblaster soudcard with an SM57 to record your acoustic guitar or a grand piano, don't be surprised. Try using some professional gear, and I don't mean the "Prosumer" stuff floating around for amazingly low prices. Untill you've spent countless thousands of dollars and countless hundreds of hours building a custom compressor from scratch for one mixdown just to get that perfect sound, you can't really say digital sucks or analog is better or analog sucks, or whatever your opinion is. If your best microphone cost you $100, or you don't restring your guitar every day while tracking, you are simply using the word 'digital' as an excuse for why you don't get the perfect sound.
There are professional studios all over the world that still use analog. There are just a many, if not more, that use digital. There are some that use both. I learned on reel to reel and a mixing board that didn't have a mouse. I'm glad I did. If I want that analog sound and I'm really feeling motivated, I can still find my way around an old Fostex. For the most part though, the advantages of digital far outweigh the benefit of tape.
You say "Analog has that 'sound'". Well, I have plugins that can reproduce that "sound" without all the hiss, noise, lack of dynamic headroom, and maintainance of tape.
I think that the analog domain is more forgiving. You can push it beyond its limit without much thought about harsh clipping. The tape hiss can cover up mistakes. That 'warmness' everyone loves so much is actually a flaw. No electrical engineer in their right mind would purposely design a recorder that simply ignored the high frequency realm. But that's what analog tape does. Digital is more revealing, more accurate of the real sound being recorded. 24 bit digital far surpasses analog in frequency response, dynamic range, ease of use, durability and consistancy.
Done right, with the right equipment, digital recording can get you better results for less money and less work. I'm not saying that there's no place for tape any more. But just like we all want to drive a new car that's better, faster, quieter, and more efficient than the last one, we should'nt shy away from digital just because the methods involved in using it are a little different. I like classic cars. I just wouldn't want to drive one to work every single day. No airbag, no antilock brakes, no A/C, no fuel injection and horrible fuel milage is fine for the weekend cruise, but I think I'll make my commute in the comfort, efficiency and relative safety of a modern car.
OK, I'm done venting. I eagerly await your harsh replies.
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
That's okay, you're entitled to your own rant,...
er,... opinion.
Thanx.
PS: no amount of kvettching about how analog sucks will ever make a true analog enthusiast go digital. Digital ain't all that, & whatever whizbang editing features digital brings to the table, are often not desired or needed features for an analog purist. You heard it here first.
er,... opinion.
Thanx.
PS: no amount of kvettching about how analog sucks will ever make a true analog enthusiast go digital. Digital ain't all that, & whatever whizbang editing features digital brings to the table, are often not desired or needed features for an analog purist. You heard it here first.
LocusLarsen
New member
....more over.......
And, blaa bla bla bla bla blaaa. Bla blaa bllaaaa bla blaa bla, I build compressor bla blaa bla. Don't use cheap equipment bla blaa baal bal blaaaaa
A true artist doesn't need to punch in and out to redo 2 notes from a take. And a true artist doesn't limit themselve to what mic can be used for what apps based on what the box told them. I sent my 58 into the mic in of the reel to reel because it doesn't need phantom power.....and it sounds great! i liked using it once in a while on the 1680, but its even better now.
I think it was another thread, let me quote off the top of my head. This is so very true.......
"Acoustic guitar on digital sounds like, clankity clank clank clack clack ding ding clanck......"
.....Something like that.
And, blaa bla bla bla bla blaaa. Bla blaa bllaaaa bla blaa bla, I build compressor bla blaa bla. Don't use cheap equipment bla blaa baal bal blaaaaa
A true artist doesn't need to punch in and out to redo 2 notes from a take. And a true artist doesn't limit themselve to what mic can be used for what apps based on what the box told them. I sent my 58 into the mic in of the reel to reel because it doesn't need phantom power.....and it sounds great! i liked using it once in a while on the 1680, but its even better now.
I think it was another thread, let me quote off the top of my head. This is so very true.......
"Acoustic guitar on digital sounds like, clankity clank clank clack clack ding ding clanck......"
.....Something like that.
LocusLarsen
New member
Here we go........
tjohnston said:
Son of Mixerman
Mix Junior
Re: To put a damper on this post
I have 3 responses...
1)Interns and Techs
2)If it wasn't worth it...nobody would still be doing it.
3)F/A 18 fighter has the same problems, but you won't find a novice trying to fly one
Your right though Shailat, your list is a killer on productivity on smaller projects or doing it yourself. Its like beer...Tastes great...but its real filling too. Nothing like having a faulty reel shed on you after you finished the last take on the drums! Doh!!
Im gonna get me a HD24 and a nice analog desk and try to relax more. My wife won't be my intern or my tech and Im tired of upload, cleaning and repairs. Im too old for analog
SoMm
Shailat said:
I have 3 responses...
1)Interns and Techs
2)If it wasn't worth it...nobody would still be doing it.
3)F/A 18 fighter has the same problems, but you won't find a novice trying to fly one
Your right though Shailat, your list is a killer on productivity on smaller projects or doing it yourself. Its like beer...Tastes great...but its real filling too. Nothing like having a faulty reel shed on you after you finished the last take on the drums! Doh!!
Im gonna get me a HD24 and a nice analog desk and try to relax more. My wife won't be my intern or my tech and Im tired of upload, cleaning and repairs. Im too old for analog
SoMm
S
scottr
New member
Hawking said:
You are an idiot. Why don't you just tell everyone to stop upgrading their gear all together? Anyone who think digital is more pleasing than analog (all other variables constant) is fucking insane. You think changing guitar strings that are a few days old are going make more difference than changing your recording medium??
Oh yeah, so is anyone gonna answer my question? What about tracking everything digitally, do all your edits and mixing and shit, and mix down to tape? Will I get similar results as I would by tracking everything to tape?
Scott
Shailat
New member
scottr said:
This should not be a analog versus digital thread...Enough of that...for the zillionth time....
People should just be aware that to get that wonderful Analog sound they have to own a well maintained unit that has been optimized by some one who knows what he is doing and that there is a price to pay be it financialy or the loss of quality after a while.
There are advantages to both digital and analog and it should be said that Digital has come a long way and what many people said about it 10 years ago doesnt apply to some of the latest gear out there.
Scottr,
The answer is 100% NO!.
Son of mixerman,
Intern ? I wouldnt let him touch the thing with a ten inch pole
.
H
Hawking
New member
LocusLarsen,
I'm not saying I built anything, I'm just saying it takes a whole lot more work, time, and money to wind up with a good sounding analog setup than it does for digital. I did have thousands of dollars of analog gear when I was recording to tape. I have yet to find something I can't do, or a better sound with my digital setup that cost me about $3000. It's simply easier.
Pro studios still use 2" tape. It's for a reason. But the reason isn't necessarily because it sounds better. It's because all the equipment is already there, the engineers already know how to use it, and they have the money to maintain it.
I'm not saying I built anything, I'm just saying it takes a whole lot more work, time, and money to wind up with a good sounding analog setup than it does for digital. I did have thousands of dollars of analog gear when I was recording to tape. I have yet to find something I can't do, or a better sound with my digital setup that cost me about $3000. It's simply easier.
Pro studios still use 2" tape. It's for a reason. But the reason isn't necessarily because it sounds better. It's because all the equipment is already there, the engineers already know how to use it, and they have the money to maintain it.