Sytek, TLAudio 5001, opinions? Sebatron?

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Booda

Booda

Master of the Obvious
I've been researching Pre's for a few months and had decided on the RNP and Grace101 (surprise, surprise). Mostly recording Rock, accoustic to hard rock. RNP for Stereo and Overheads and the Grace for cleaner clearer single tracks.

I track w/ a Aardvark DPro (Pre's and small amount of Comp) into VST 5. My Mics are Rode NTK, (2)Oktava mc012, (2)57s, c1000, and a PZM and the Antares Mic mod.

Now that I'm about ready to pick up something... I've been thinking of getting the Sytek 4aii but do the latest models still sound like the older Burr Brown (ch3 & 4). I'm thinking it would be a little bit like having a RNP and Grace but saving $200 and having a 4th channel.?. I also have cosidered the TLAudio 5001 but is it really Tube or just Toob? Does it compare to the Sytek or Grace?

I recently saw this Unit http://www.sebatron.com/vmp4000e/index.html & am considering saving untill I could afford it. I like all its Options and the 30 day trial period. But w/ my setup would it be over kill?

I'm pretty satisfied w/ my recordings (the NTK has helped a bunch) The Aark Pre's (DMP3 like) are decent but I want to kick it up a notch. I don't want a Band-Aid, but something I'll keep for years to come. I started out just wanting a 2 ch. Tube Pre for my 012 Overheads & you can see where I am now :)

Thanks for any help or ideas,
B.
 
Booda said:
I recently saw this Unit http://www.sebatron.com/vmp4000e/index.html & am considering saving untill I could afford it. I like all its Options and the 30 day trial period. But w/ my setup would it be over kill?
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Given Sebatron's shady marketing tactics (planting shills in every recording newsgroup on the planet to push their product), I'd be very leery of them until somebody I trust has actually tried one out. Over the last several months, they have apparently offered to send evaluation units to Fletcher, Harvey, Scott Dorsey and a few others (even Dot). As far as I know, it's just been all talk to this point. If I were you, I'd stay clear of them for now.
 
Well, if you're gonna buy 2 seperate pres, then I would suggest getting one that is more "transparent" type or at least neutral side and the other clearly colored.

While I've never used either the RNP or 101, from my understanding, they're both on the neutral and transparent side.

The hard thing is, high-quality colored pres start-off at around $1k; regardless of the number of channels. There are a few exceptions, but I really can't think of any off the top of my head. Oh, there's the vintage Telefunken/TAB/Siemens V72 for around $500. They take 220V power, so if you're on different voltage, you'll need a power transformer.

If going with a 4-ch. preamp, there are about 3 options off the top of my head. The Sytek 4aii for a neutral-type, the Sebatron vmp4000e for a very clean tube design, and the DaviSound TB-6 www.davisound.com for a transparent or what I call a "natural" type.

The Sytek would be my last choice. Not detailed enough for me. I'd take the TB-6 or vmp4000e any day. While I've never heard the vmp4000e, Kurt over at RO has and I trust his ears. I personally wouldn't hesitate to buy a Sebatron. So vmp4000e or TB-6? That's up to you? The TB-6 is as clean and detailed as can be and I trust the vmp4000e is too. They're just two completely different animals and only you must decide what type you want to buy this time around.

As yet another option to trhow-out at you, you could consider a module setup like Old School Audio www.oldschoolaudio.com or something. You'd looking at around $1500 for 2-ch. plus the rack and PSU. Then, when you want another preamp, you're looking at only around $500 each! And you've got a variety others besides OSA to choose from; such as API www.apiaudio.com or Brent Averill www.brentaverill.com! Plus, you can add compression or EQ if you want too!!!

Just throwing options out there for your consideration!
 
jslator- I had read something about them (Sebatron) and Warm Cola. I looked up WC and as far as I can see they're just a web design co. ? Could you point me in the direction of some of these pushers? I'd like to check it out for my self. I actually don't have a problem w/ internet based Co. using newsgroups and forums to get the word out and answer questions... BUT, if they are saying false things or being pushy that's another story. I'd like to read some of this bad stuff I've heard of. I found out about some incredibly great sounding speakers this way and ended up getting some Audiophile level speakers for about 1/3 the price. Listening to music has since been at a new level for me. Very Exciting stuff actually. So I'm all for the small guy making a great product and passing on the savings by not having a middle man. Another great thing about the internet.

I think that having a 30 day money back guarantee and 3 year warranty shows their belief in themselves and their product. I also will wait for the reviews to start coming out. I could get the Sytek now but if I go the Sebatron route... I'll have to wait few months anyway.

RE- Some more good pieces to think about. I actually had come across the TB-6 but I don't have much written in my notes about it... I'll look more into that one for sure and the Toolbox Idea is interesting. So you think the vmp4000e would not be over stepping my bounds and worth Twice as much the pricetag of the Sytek? I think I was just hoping someone would say that ;)

Thanks alot guys!
B.

ps- no mention of the TLAudio 5001...? not worth the thought?
 
Sebatron..........apparently based in Melbourne, it is the guys name or a derivative of same and he has been hanging and giving tech oriented advice over at RO for a while now. Kurt Foster (at RO), has apparently "evaluated" one of these units and posted his opinions at RO. Kurt usually seems to be the type that shoots straight from the hip with no bullshit............but take that for what it's worth.

Personally, I would want to have one to play with myself before forming an opinion.

:cool:
 
chessrock said:
That's interesting.
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Sure is. But I find "disappointing" (when it comes to detail while sitting next to some of the big-boys) to be the more appropriate. Don't get me wrong, it's a good neutral preamp, worth every penny, and I wouldn't ever hesitate to use it, but it's not something I would think of when it comes to extreme detail and it's certainly not something you'd find in my rack 10 years down the road.

As for Sebatron (or DaviSound for that matter), it's not for those who has a hard-time or can't afford taking chances. It's true, play with one before forming an opinion (as ausrock says), but the question is: Can you take the step of purchasing an item in order to do just that?

Because the truth is, unless you have gear, that's not yours, conveniently around for you to play with, you're gonna HAVE to purchase FIRST in order to form any type of opinion worth a shit. Yeah, you're gonna loose some money (significant money at times) if you end-up deciding it's not worth keeping it around, but that's how it works; hit or miss.

Go with what you think may best suit your needs and will fit your budget or what you think you can save over a time you decide. After a reasonable amount of time, if you decide it's not what you had hoped, turn-around and sell it, and try the runner-up. It's the name of the game.

Me, I go out of my way to look and try gear that you're not gonna find in every studio and that fit my budget. I find gems and turds, but you never know unless you try.
 
I believe sytek with the better op amps is what people rave about when they rave about sytek. They are fine pres though dif than the grace or the RNP. They are all dif flavors of clean, the RNP being the most aggressive and 'top end' sounding of the bunch. With compression anyway.
 
JuSumPilgrim said:
I believe sytek with the better op amps is what people rave about when they rave about sytek. the RNP being the most aggressive and 'top end' sounding of the bunch. With compression anyway.
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By better op amps do you mean the Burr Browns or the newer JFet? They supposedly are suppose to sound the same?

RNP's Top end... are you saying they're a little brighter sounding as in they have a boost in the upper frequencys, Or the Sytek and Grace are just a little darker?

Thanks
B.
 
Booda said:
RNP's Top end... are you saying they're a little brighter sounding as in they have a boost in the upper frequencys, Or the Sytek and Grace are just a little darker?

Thanks
B.
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It's not that the RNP sound brighter; it's more like the top end sounds extended.
 
The Kurt Foster review of the Sebatron over at R.O. can be taken at its face value. Kurt has plenty of real nice gear to compare it to and this is one he's jumpin up and down about..And I dont think that Sebatron is 'planting shills' as has been suggested.He(sebatron) is in fact a member of several forums but hangs a lot at R.O>
Another fine clean and uncolored pre is the True Systems P2...look at the neumann site as they are distributing them..
 
Booda said:
Could you point me in the direction of some of these pushers? I'd like to check it out for my self.
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Check this forum, Harmony Central, Pro Sound Web, recording.org and rec.audio.pro for any of the following users: "agent wisdom", "big ears", "cranko", "Joshua AUSTRALIA", "kat", "kat28", "lucy", "pingo", "soundhead" and "wise guy".

I actually don't have a problem w/ internet based Co. using newsgroups and forums to get the word out and answer questions... BUT, if they are saying false things or being pushy that's another story.
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The m.o. is that they sign up to a newsgroup and start saying how they just bought a Sebatron and it "blows away" every other pre they've tried. All of these Sebatron "customers" seem to use the same odd descriptive term ("organic warmth"), they all seem to own the same gear (Vintech, Avalon 737, etc) and to have been considering purchasing a Great River. Some of them even list the same birthdates in their profiles. You might think that maybe it was just one guy who honestly had different user I.D.'s for some reason, but on a couple of ocassions the different "users" converse with each other about how great their Sebatrons are. Sometimes one will post that he's considering buying one, and then 30 minutes later post under the same name that he's owned one for a few months and that it's great. So, the deception is pretty obvious. This all seems to fit well with thier marketing company's "viral marketing strategies" (see the Warm Cola website for details).

I think that having a 30 day money back guarantee and 3 year warranty shows their belief in themselves and their product.
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The fact that they've promised to send a bunch of evaluation units out and apparantly haven't done so might lead one to believe that they also have some doubts about thier products. Dot, are you listening? What happened to the Sebatron evaluation unit you were supposed to get?
 
jslator said:
The m.o. is that they sign up to a newsgroup and start saying how they just bought a Sebatron and it "blows away" every other pre they've tried. All of these Sebatron "customers" seem to use the same odd descriptive term ("organic warmth"), they all seem to own the same gear (Vintech, Avalon 737, etc) and to have been considering purchasing a Great River. Some of them even list the same birthdates in their profiles. You might think that maybe it was just one guy who honestly had different user I.D.'s for some reason, but on a couple of ocassions the different "users" converse with each other about how great their Sebatrons are. Sometimes one will post that he's considering buying one, and then 30 minutes later post under the same name that he's owned one for a few months and that it's great. So, the deception is pretty obvious. This all seems to fit well with thier marketing company's "viral marketing strategies" (see the Warm Cola website for details).
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There are other companies that have been suspected of employing the exact same strategies. I'm not going to name them, because I'm sure most of those on this board within even the humblest of IQ levels have figured them out by now.

The difference is that some companies are very good at it, are much better at hiding their tracks, and have been doing a much better job getting people to "endorse" their product and so on.

Viral marketing is a tricky thing to pull off, and Warm Cola seems to be full of a bunch of amateurs who could use the advice of a tried and true gear pimp if they want to be successful. :D :D
 
I tell ya, who cares about those strategies or any other means of marketing gear... How about those who spend their time crying about it?
chessrock said:
I'm not going to name them, because I'm sure most of those on this board within even the humblest of IQ levels have figured them out by now.[/B]
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Although, seriously, that wasn't REALLY directed you, chessrock, or anyone else for that matter. The point is, people don't really need for it to be pointed-out... Nor the facts about reviewers or endorser... I think people know it as common knowledge now, it's just now up to them what they want to except.

People, myself included, narrow-down the now insane amount of options out there based on nothing but comments by friends, reviewers, and people on these types of places, etc. all the time. They might go to the stores and try to compare their narrowed-down list next to each other, but even then, that's pretty damn useless! You MUST buy and try to it for some time to REALLY know!!!

Of course, there's the brand name recognition and brand name reputation factor too, but I think that's shopping even further in the dark than comments made!
 
Recording Engineer said:
How about those who spend their time crying about it?
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How about those who spend their time crying about people crying about it?
 
How about something a little more significant than "loopy-loop"...
 
And while you guys argue about the ethics of this kind of marketing you are playing right into their hands by propogating further interest in their clients products. They rely on human curiousity to investigate and find out what starts these kind iof discussions.

Clever?...........Yep. Ethical?............Who really knows.


Some months ago I was under the impression that Sebatron was just a small (possibly even one man ) business owned and run by Sebastian, making gear, albeit good quality who's only other claim to fame was some audio engineering. The feeling I got from early "web encounters", was that the guy was potentially full of himself and his abilities. But he is claiming to have found a new way to manufacture a wheel...........is it a good wheel, I don't know, but to date I haven't seen anything that would change my early impressions.

:cool:
 
jslator, I should be getting a new dual tube Sebatron pre for review soon. It's not a unit that's available yet.

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Just another comment on this whole "shill" business - I don't think that any of the regular well-known people on all the different recording forums are " on the take". I think there's the odd few - who have very little posts, don't know what they're really talking about, and just post that one unit is the best - and often dissapear after that.

I'm in contact on a daily basis with almost every major manufacturer, and I've never once had anyone approach me about paying me for plugging their products in the forums.

I do think if it happens, it's more people who work in marketing departments for some of the companies. But even at that, they're not very convincing.

Dan Richards
Digital Pro Sound
The Listening Sessions
 
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