Sytek Sucks

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littledog said:
I don't quite understand the first half of this post. What would mixing on a Neotek, or whether or not the Neotek has great EQ have anything to do with the Sytek four channel preamp? You can't mix on it, and it has no EQ.

There still seems to be
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Hmm, I had no problem understanding that post at all, and clearly see what he was saying. And I've never used either a Sytek or A Neotek.

The part about the EQ had to do with why you might really like a Neotek, they have a nice EQ. The rest was about how the Sytek pres sounds like those on a Neotek.
 
fraserhutch said:
Hmm, I had no problem understanding that post at all, and clearly see what he was saying. And I've never used either a Sytek or A Neotek.
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You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din.

Please read this line once again:

"If you have ever mixed on a Neoek, you would understand that the Sytek pre is very similar."

With all due respect, (and I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here,) but it's either a "typo" or flat out non-sequitur.

It's like saying: "If you've ever eaten Chinese food, you would understand that the Kenmore Refrigerator is very similar."

I can only assume that he meant to say "If you've ever recorded through a Neotek's preamps, you would understand that the Sytek pre is very similar."

At least that would make sense.
 
Now you're just splitting hairs between tracking and mixing. You KNOW what he meant, especially in the context of his post.

Sheesh.
littledog said:
You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din.

Please read this line once again:

"If you have ever mixed on a Neoek, you would understand that the Sytek pre is very similar."

With all due respect, (and I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here,) but it's either a "typo" or flat out non-sequitur.

It's like saying: "If you've ever eaten Chinese food, you would understand that the Kenmore Refrigerator is very similar."

I can only assume that he meant to say "If you've ever recorded through a Neotek's preamps, you would understand that the Sytek pre is very similar."

At least that would make sense.
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fraserhutch said:
Now you're just splitting hairs between tracking and mixing. You KNOW what he meant, especially in the context of his post.

Sheesh.
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Perhaps I should have, now that you pointed it out. But at the time I was honestly confused by the non sequitur.

I never claimed to be the brightest bulb in the chandelier. Sorry if I annoyed you. :o
 
Perhaps I should have said "tracked" because that is more what I meant. Yes many studios do have outboard preamps to use for "critical" tracks even though they have a Neotek console. Then again, so do studios that have SSL's, Neve's, Tridents etc... I also agree to a certain extent that the price difference compared to the sound quality difference between a Sytek preamp and a Mackie are closer than one might think... however, I still think that the Sytek would serve better in most situations. I am also referring to the newer Onyx line, and not the older VLZ x line. That comparison isn't really that close. Of course in my first post I did not realize that this thread was as much of a joke as it was. I definately don't like seeing people pick on the better smaller companies though. A little unjustified bad rep can really damage a company like that that already has a lower overhead. Mike Stoika is a great guy making great product, and needs every bit of business he can get. Neotek and Sytek are not multimillion dollar entities and a little bad press can be very damaging. According to Falken, this thread may already be affecting his purchase decision.

I still believe that the Sytek meets the hype it has gotten. In most circles it does not nor has it ever gotten the amount of hype that things here seem to get.
 
xstatic said:
According to Falken, this thread may already be affecting his purchase decision.
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Jesus. Just because of one dumb thread? :D Still, I don't know just how realistic the idea of getting any sort of board with a "big sound" is going to be, in a home recording setting and on a home recording budget.

Maybe something like a Soundcraft Ghost, using outboard mic pres like an API lunchbox would get pretty close.
.
 
chessrock said:
I don't know just how realistic the idea of getting any sort of board with a "big sound" is going to be, in a home recording setting and on a home recording budget.
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yeah, me neither. I am looking at it from the perspective that it will be the only board I will ever need, and I already know I am going to be doing this for a very, very long time. I plan on moving into a house with a great sounding room, and I just don't see myself mixing on a yomama after that. I guess its more of a personal quest for the best sound possible.
 
xstatic said:
If you have ever mixed on a Neoek, you would understand that the Sytek pre is very similar. So you don't like the Sytek? Don't use it. Does it suck? Hell no. Does it live up to they hype? In my opinion it does in all aspects. Maybe not the hype on THIS BBS, but once you leave this particularly small section of the audio industry, they are not hyped as much by others. If you don't like the Sytek, you might want to avoid Neoteks too, although at HR.com that probably is not much of an issue./ It's too bad though, because Neotek Eq's are pretty cool. I wish Mike would release a 4 channel Sytek EQ, or maybe single channel strips. Anyhow, the Sytek is a fairly neutral preamp. It will never get in your way, but will never really stand out and outwardly impress you either. I can certainly understand in this day and age why people might not enjoy or appreciate that. However, if you only have 2 to 4 channels of top notch preamps, having another 8 channels of Sytek is a great thing to make sure that those other tracks get a good feel come mix time.
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If this post was in response to me I am a bit confused. I would actually agree with you regarding the EQ. The pre is still not much of an upgrade from even budget consoles. Yes it is clean, It will not get in your way. To me mackie pres wouldn't get in the way either. I said I can't see them making much difference in a mix when when replacing a handful of console pre's with sytek.

I don't know what you were implying with the home recording and BBS stuff. I rarely come here. I make my living working in audio, music and film post.
 
chessrock said:
Jesus. Just because of one dumb thread? :D Still, I don't know just how realistic the idea of getting any sort of board with a "big sound" is going to be, in a home recording setting and on a home recording budget.

Maybe something like a Soundcraft Ghost, using outboard mic pres like an API lunchbox would get pretty close.
.
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I may be considered dumb according to those in possession of higher crudentials, but this thread isn't dumb. It has evolved into intelligent discussion.

I agree with Chessrock when he says that "big sounds" are difficult to achieve with small budgets, but, regardless of small budgets and minimal equipment, I've listended to some very well recorded songs presented here at HR.
 
I got nothin.........

just tunes in to see what the hell a "Sytek" was. :D

I stand enlightened.
 
It's pretty weird that I was just searching for a "Sytek" thread early last week and didn't find much recently...now this. I'm glad we can all get this stuff off our chests.

My experience with Mike Stoika was very positive. It did, however have a problem with one of the channels sounding like a whale mating call. (Is that the problem you had with your burr brown channel?) He offered to fix it for free, but it hasn't happened since. I think it was during a phantom power down?

I did a little preamp comparison between an Avalon 737, Great River ME-1NV, and Sytek and actually found I liked the Sytek best on my voice (what?). I bought them mainly for when I record more than one track at a time (drums). Besides the whale mating going on a few times when I first bought it (the breaking-in??), I've been happy with it. Besides, Steve Albini has one, and i'm trying to buy everything he has. :D
 
Phosphene said:
It's pretty weird that I was just searching for a "Sytek" thread early last week and didn't find much recently...now this. I'm glad we can all get this stuff off our chests.

My experience with Mike Stoika was very positive. It did, however have a problem with one of the channels sounding like a whale mating call. (Is that the problem you had with your burr brown channel?) He offered to fix it for free, but it hasn't happened since. I think it was during a phantom power down?

I did a little preamp comparison between an Avalon 737, Great River ME-1NV, and Sytek and actually found I liked the Sytek best on my voice (what?). I bought them mainly for when I record more than one track at a time (drums). Besides the whale mating going on a few times when I first bought it (the breaking-in??), I've been happy with it. Besides, Steve Albini has one, and i'm trying to buy everything he has. :D
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Phos,

I'm glad this thread caught your attention. My experience with Mike was as positive as you experienced yourself.

"Whale mating?" :D

The problem I have is strictly on one of the Burr Op channels where it becomes very noisy somewhere between 5 & 6. The sound of mating whales is unfamiliar territory for me. Is that a clicking sound?

The bottom line is...is that I can still use the channel as long as I don't push it to extreme and I have a strong up front signal.

I didn't see the need to bother Mike with a minor problem.........which leads right back to...............

This thread has been brought to you as a public service. ;)
 
chessrock said:
Jesus. Just because of one dumb thread? :D Still, I don't know just how realistic the idea of getting any sort of board with a "big sound" is going to be, in a home recording setting and on a home recording budget.

Maybe something like a Soundcraft Ghost, using outboard mic pres like an API lunchbox would get pretty close.
.
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I don't think a board should be the focus point of getting a big sound. I'm sure it couldn't hurt to have a board with some 'larger than life' pres, but I want to add a cliche to my statement and say that one should focus more on the room and mic selection/placement. I hear plenty of albums that come out thin, with the snare drum sounding like a hand-clap at best, even though they were done on an old neve or API. A cheap pre might negatively effect the work you put into getting a big sound at the source, but a decent, clean pre shouldn't. Just my thoughts.
 
The centerpiece of my studio is a large format console. It cost me an arm and a leg, but it has been well worth it. Consoles are by far the most cost effective way of getting a large amount of quality preamps and EQ's for a low per channel cost. The average on my console right now is under $500 per channel of preamp and EQ combinations, and that is only counting half the channels concerning EQ's. Then you have to figure in the centrality of the unit, the hollywood factor for clients, the amazing routing, precise metering, ZERO latency monitoring, and a resale value.

I am not saying everyone should run out and buy one, but there are some amazing deals on older consoles out there that sound fantastic. The preamps in my console hold their own against many quality preamps out there. Several months ago we did some testing with the console, API, 2 different OSA's, and a Chandler TG2. The console was never necessarily the top pick, but held its own on every test, whereas the individual preamps seemed to vary a little more widely between the different sources and mics. The EQ on the console absolutely smokes and plug in EQ's that I have used. It even does better in my opinion than all of the sub $1000 outboard EQ's. Including the Speck. The bottom line for me is I never have to worry about runnin out of resources, I don't have to waste time with patching, I feel better sitting behind it, clients love it, and I am guranteed that every channel I record hits a great preamp and I have the option to use an awesome EQ on every channel. The only real downsides I have found is that getting the console commisioned took a lot of hard work, it outs out a lot of heat (great during the winter though, I never ran my heat last winter in the control room....) and leaving it on sucks a lot of electricity.
 
I guess what it comes down to is headroom. right now I have to be very careful about where my levels are at on the board. whereas I am always hearing guys with big boards talk about "pushing" the channels and getting different "sounds" out of them. I guess that's what I want. I want to stop worrying about whether or not my board is going to crap out on a transient, or if I am degrading the signal just by running it through.
 
It's definitely a good investment if you are serious about recording. But, around here, a good investment turns into the latest buzz word or trend, and some fundamentals get over-looked. I love my MixWiz, and it's most definitely my first step towards a large-format console. There's just something I like about the repetition on an analog board.
 
anyone selling one?

i just recorded with one of these and thought it sounded pretty amazing for what i do. now i want one of my own.

if anyone has one used and would want to part with it, email me (thegunshy@hotmail.com) or send me a message on here.

matt
 
Plush at Gearslutz has good things to say about Sytek pres..hes been in the classical business for many many years, and has won countless awards(just won a gramophone award this year). If he says they are decent..well, they probably are. He doesnt mince words, and will say right away if something sucks ass.
 
FALKEN said:
I guess what it comes down to is headroom. right now I have to be very careful about where my levels are at on the board. whereas I am always hearing guys with big boards talk about "pushing" the channels and getting different "sounds" out of them. I guess that's what I want. I want to stop worrying about whether or not my board is going to crap out on a transient, or if I am degrading the signal just by running it through.
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Hell, the gain setting part's easy! Just turn your recorder gain settings up by about 6 dB or so, maybe 10 dB and you'll be sure that it won't be working the preamps too hard. then set up a bank of fixed pads for your mixer inputs if your recorder outs are too hot for the mixer to handle. That only takes three resistors per channel wired up in an old patchbay. I'll sell you a spare bay for $10 plus shipping if you need it. I did all this with my little Mackie and it's worked astoundingly well with my 3M recorders for the last decade or so.

Otto
 
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