Super cheap, super basic, extremely half assed home recording

[jalbert]

I am trying to slap together a cheap way to get my voice and guitar onto tape and CD with at least some sound quality. I have:

2 Kenwood Dynamic Microphones(that cost me $11.00 a piece)
a Lawrence acoustic guitar pickup(the kind that pops into the soundhole)
a JVC TD-W309 cassette deck(with mic input)
and a COMPAQ Presario 2500 Laptop(with CD burner)

What I've done in the past is run a mic(actually before I stepped up to these sweet Kenwood babies it was half of an old set of headphones) through the tapedeck(using it as a preamp) and into the laptop. Let's just say the sound was less than inspiring, but it worked.
What I'd Like to do now is use one mic on my voice and a combination of the other mic and the pickup on my guitar. I've been looking for a cheap preamp/mixer to this with but haven't had luck finding anything with more than two channels. So, I'm thinking about getting a Rolls MX41 4-Channel Passive Mixer and either continuing to use the tapedeck as a preamp or buying a real one. I'd like to have tone control for each channel but I know that's going to be more expensive. Anyway, any suggestions on what I should try or buy would be appreciated.

 

[H2oskiphil]

You're right...that IS cheap!

If you want to STAY cheap, pop for one of the cheap little Behringer 4 channel mixers. Eurorack UB802 will get you 2 mono channels, 2 stereo channels for $50. 2 XLR ins and 2 1/4" ins, 3 band EQ on each channel....

Of course, you could probably rig something together with tin cans and string for a little less....

 

[jalbert]

thanks for responding. I've looked at the mixers you suggested but I couldn't tell if they also function as a preamp. Are you suggesting getting one of those(to mix levels and adjust tone) and then running it through a preamp? Thanks again.

 

[DJL]

The Behringer mixers have built-in preamps.

 

[H2oskiphil]

As DJL said, the mixer serves as a preamp. Mics and guitar pickup go into the mixer, and you can plug the mixer into the same inputs on the laptop as you're using now with the tape deck.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say your sound quality will improve dramatically with this setup. You won't keep George Massenberg awake at night, but you'll see a pretty significant step up...

 

[jalbert]

I was looking at the UB802 and was wondering about the MAIN OUT. I see there's a left and right. Will I need an adapter to change this into a regular 1/8 inch jack or do I just use one side or do I use the headphone jack? Also I'm guessing that whatever is plugged into the left side(where it says mono) of the 3/4 or 5/6 line will come through on both left and right. Is that right? Sorry if these are lame questions but I obviously don't know too much about this stuff. Thanks alot.

 

[H2oskiphil]

How are you running the tape deck into the laptop now? And what input on the laptop are you using?

 

[TimOBrien]

I was looking at the UB802 and was wondering about the MAIN OUT. I see there's a left and right. Will I need an adapter to change this into a regular 1/8 inch jack or do I just use one side or do I use the headphone jack?

Yes. You can get a (2) 1/4" mono - to - 1/8" stereo plug adapter at Radio Shack. Plug it into the LINE-IN plug of your soundcard.

 

[jalbert]

I have been running a line from the 1/4 inch headphone jack of my tapedeck into the 1/8 inch mic input on my laptop. I don't see(or recognize) any other inputs on the laptop. The whole Stereo/Mono thing confuses the hell out of me. I think I could figure it all out with the mixer in front of me but I'm just wondering what kind of adapters and cables I'll need to get this all set up. Both mics and my pickup have 1/4 inch jacks and I don't really care if the sound of everything is split evenly between right and left. Will I still need the (2) 1/4" mono - to - 1/8" stereo plug adapter that TimOBrien mentioned above to do this? And how do those 3/4 and 5/6 Left Right inputs Work?

 

[Innovations]

what sound inputs and outputs does your laptop have? If your laptop has only a mic in and headphone out you do not have a line-in and it means that the noisy laptop preamps would be unavoidable. In that case what I would suggest you do is bypass the laptop's 'sound card' use an external sound interface via the USB port like the M-Audio MobilePre
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...rec/s=computer/search/detail/base_pid/701368/

 

[jalbert]

Innovations,
Thanks for the suggestion. I would like to be able to run whatever mixer/preamp I get into my tapedeck as well and it seems with what you're suggesting I could only do this by going through the laptop first(to adjust tone and whatnot). Also, what is the advantage, as far as using the laptop, of the M-Audio MobilePre compared to the Behringer mixer?

 

[Innovations]

Innovations,
Thanks for the suggestion. I would like to be able to run whatever mixer/preamp I get into my tapedeck as well and it seems with what you're suggesting I could only do this by going through the laptop first(to adjust tone and whatnot). Also, what is the advantage, as far as using the laptop, of the M-Audio MobilePre compared to the Behringer mixer?

well, with the mobilpre about all you get is gain control over the two channels. You can go from the mobilepre right to the tape deck using the line-out from the mobilepre to the tape. Frankly though, why are you so eager to get the sound onto tape? Personally I think the great advantage of digital recording is recording the tracks raw and then adjusting at your leisure, not to mention the wonders of undo.

 

[jalbert]

why are you so eager to get the sound onto tape?

Well, despite the amount of time I've spent posting these questions I really don't like using the computer all that much. Especially when an idea hits and I don't feel like waiting for it to turn on. Also I want the mixer/preamp I get to be usable with an amp for live performances.

 

[Lance135]

Yeah, sometimes you just want to get the idea down quickly. I can totally relate.

For the price, you really can't beat the little Behringer mixer. It has a microphone preamp, and a quarter inch output. Then you only need the quarter inch-to-RCA into your tape deck. Then you get a standard two RCA-to-stereo eighth inch cable to record to your laptop. I know a professional producer that uses those little four channel Behringer boards for headphone amps in his studio.

 

[schulteboy]

I have a 16 track tape recorder, a mixer and a computer. My recorder and mixer are a little different than the ones that you are talking about (and I use more microphones) but the basics are pretty much the same. I plug my microphones into my mixer (I like to adjust the tone knobs a little bit) then the mixer plugs into the tape deck and I use the tape deck to record. Later, I can play the tape back and record the good parts (if there are any) onto the computer so that I can burn CDs.

Do you ever use the tape deck to record? The reason I ask is this: the tape deck (unlike the computer) does not have to boot up every time you get an idea in your head. Can you put your music onto a tape and then record onto the computer? If your friends criticize this setup, just tell them that you love the warmth that only comes magnetic tape recordings.

It sounds like we have the same basic setup, except that you need to find a cheap mixer. The mixer will probably have outputs that you can plug into your tape deck with cords or adapters if necessary.

 

[jalbert]

Yeah, I like to use the tapedeck somtimes because it's quicker and easier. Does anyone know if ALTO electronics makes good stuff? I was looking at a mixer of theirs that seems comparable to the Behringer. Alot of people have bad things to say about Behringer. Would the ALTO be a better buy?

 

[Innovations]

Yeah, sometimes you just want to get the idea down quickly. I can totally relate.

For the price, you really can't beat the little Behringer mixer. It has a microphone preamp, and a quarter inch output. Then you only need the quarter inch-to-RCA into your tape deck. Then you get a standard two RCA-to-stereo eighth inch cable to record to your laptop. I know a professional producer that uses those little four channel Behringer boards for headphone amps in his studio.

Again the only problem with this is that he does not have a line-in on his laptop, only a mic-in. You are not going to get decent music recordings through a laptop mic-in.

You don't have to have the computer on to use the MobilePre as a preamp to the tape deck, so you can record on tape without having to wait (and does it really take that long). And you will get way better results in digitizing the eventual tape by going throught he MobilePre and the USB rather than the mic-in of a cheap laptop sound interface.

 

[jalbert]

Innovations,
I get what your saying about the sound quality. I just don't think the MobilePre is versatile enough for everything I want to do. For now I think I'm going to get a regular mixer/preamp and settle for the mediocre sound on the laptop. Is there another product you'd suggest, that I could get in the future, that would work only to convert the signal coming from the mixer into the USB port? That is, something with only one line in and one line out and no function other than conversion. Thanks.

I was just looking and I found this:

http://www.buymebuyme.com/retail/ca...lex_P500_USB_Digital_Audio_Converter_NEW.html

What do you think?

 

[jalbert]

I bought the USB converter I mentioned above and it turned out to be piece of crap. I got the ALTO S-6 mixer and it seems to work fine for what I need.

 

[Innovations]

I bought the USB converter I mentioned above and it turned out to be piece of crap. I got the ALTO S-6 mixer and it seems to work fine for what I need.

Sorry the Telos unit turned out to be crap. I was afraid it might, since it was presented as being for phone and voice recognition applications, but had no experience with it to really say.