Suffocating runnaway bass reverb!!?

  • Thread starter Thread starter VesuviusJay
  • Start date Start date
VesuviusJay

VesuviusJay

Poser Roaster
OK, I listened to the effects of both phasing and polarity situations on my headphones last night. I think I could tell the polarity issue because it made my head feel funny! :> Anyway, that shot the miking the back of the combo idea. So I tried the put the cab back down and mic from the top idea. This worked great except for one thing. Now at certain lower end notes and chords on the a and e strings, I get that loud bass-y feedback effect if you know what i mean. Like the whole room reverberates at that frequency to double or tripple the volume.

Anyone have a suggestion to cut these out of control bass frequencies out of my incoming mix??!

Thanks
 
Sounds like you got a bad case of the "Roomity-Boom-Booms" -

Describe the room you're using, if possible from the viewpoint of the carpenter that built it (what's the floor made of, layer by layer, from the earth up to where you laid your amp cab, what are the walls made of, also layer by layer, etc -

Room construction makes a HUUUUUUGE difference in bass response, as does mic placement, equally so SOURCE placement in the room - get specific on all these, and we can make better suggestions... Steve
 
Garage. 10X18. concrete floor covered mostly with carpet remanants. Its an add on so one wall is stucco, and the rest bare finished drywall. I have the cab on its back in a "just off center" location with the mics pointing down at angles. One right at the cabinet and one about 3 fit up. Metal pull down garage door. Im turning the guitar up to where it's barely audible through the stucco wall, where on the other side is the control room. (Crate GFX212-T with volume at between 2 and 3)

Again the sound is definately being produced in the room and picked up by the mic's, because I can hear the "boomities" just standing in the room.
 
If you're hearing the problem just standing in the room, I'd get the amp off the floor. Try putting it on a low speaker stand, or something solid, about 3-4 feet from a wall, NOT in a corner - Also, check the tone controls of the amp and bass - before you can record something and make it sound good, it has to actually sound good. If you can't find a place in the room where you like the sound, then no mic on earth will help no matter where you put it.

If you have any actual reverb on the bass, turn it off.

Try putting the amp as I suggested, then walking around the room playing the bass. See if you can find a spot where it sounds good. You may have to duck-walk, since altitude is as important as the other two dimensions.

Places to stay away from are: walls, floor, ceiling, and anywhere that is equidistant from two parallel surfaces; also, any spot whose position is at 1/3, 1/4 or 1/5 of the total distance between ANY two parallel surfaces. These points will always either sum or starve, because they are at various nodes and anti-nodes of the room modal frequencies. Not good.

If the garage has no acoustic treatment other than the carpet remnants, it's probably pretty live with maybe just a little less highs - If possible, even an old couch placed "kitty-corner" would help tame the bass. The drywall will trap some bass by acting as a diaphramatic absorber, but the concrete floor will probably counteract most or all of that.

If all else fails, how about putting the amp in a different room of the house (no concrete, more furniture) and recording it there?

Mainly, if you can't get the source to sound right to your ears, it won't record any better. Best I can suggest is to experiment until you like the sound, then put the mic where your ear was... Steve
 
Thanks Steve! And actually it is the guitar that Im having trouble with not a bass, but I see how I could have misled you on that one. Anyway Im going to try and hang some blankets in a semi sound booth tonight and see it that helps.
 
Also, do you expect any reverberation coming from the crappy sheetmetal garage door?
 
Yeah, the lows will go through it like cheap greasy tacos, the mids will excite anything that can rattle, and the highs (that don't get through the cracks) will come back like gangbusters.

Other than that, it's perfect :=)

If you get blankets, that'd be the first place I'd put 'em, right AFTER putting self-stick foam weatherstrip tape (better yet, the self-stick camper shell mounting tape from RV dealers, it's heavier) on any door panels that rattle when you play ANY note in the garage - otherwise, that door will probably be the first thing that gets you arrested for disturbance. And, before ANY of that, check the door for any loose hardware, tighten screws, etc... Steve

Oh, no change in the previous post, all I said would also apply to guitar. You might back off on any reverb, recording it dry and adding 'verb later if you have a way to do that (separate processor)
 
????????????????????????

Are you micing an open back amp with it laying on it's back on the floor?

Ed
 
Well I was, but I was getting major comb filtering when I tried that. So I suppose tonight I am going to try and mic the amp from the back with a phase reverser (polarity reverser), and see if I can get some beef without combing.
 
Indeed, I can assure you that closing up the back of an open back amp isn't terribly desireable! There is a good reason for the open back design. :) A HUGE increase in bass response will certainly result as all the back pressure from the speaker must go somewhere.

I think you will possibly have your best results with an open back amp micing it at least one foot away, with the mic about 6" to the side of the amp and the diaphram aimed toward center of one of the speakers. If proximity is still too much, back up a bit with the mic, and go a hair wider out from the side of the box. You can also see where placing the mic at center, but about 2' back will get you.

By the way, this all works much better with a nice LD Condensor. In this kind of micing, a SM-57 sucks badly.

Ed
 
Actually I was using a stageworks kick drum mic. Do you think this will do?
 
It might. I have used a RE 27 to record a guitar before. But only when the sound was VERY thin and shrill.

It is hard to recommend mic's and mic placements to guitar sounds I can't hear in a room while they are playing. The person playing, the guitar itself, and the amp settings have so much to do with how it needs to sound to record well for the production goal of the guitar.

Hell, you might just have the wrong amp for the kind of sound you are after! That wouldn't be the first time that has happened.

I only mention the above because you stated you wanted "beef" in the sound. Definately try different mics and placements. Even try different preamps if you have them. I go between a Drawmer 1960, and ART MP Pro, and a Oram MWS depending upon what I am tracking and how the whole combo works. I find the ART and Drawmer get used on guitars far more often than the Oram, but the Oram sometimes sounds just right. The "shading" of the tone is subtly different in all those pre's.

I also usually try a SM-57, a AKG 414, and a AT 4050 on guitars. There is of course a VERY big difference between the sound of each of these mics. The SM-57 usually delivers a good "stock" tone for "traditional rock" sounds IF the player has a fairly thinned out sound coming out of the amp. The 414 give me a more upfront sound that handles the low end better and provides some good "grit" to the sound (usuful for metal players that don't seem to get the proper "cut" in their sound). The 4050 give me a very smooth, detailed, BIG sound when placed right. Great top end, and tight bottom.

Anyway, opinions vary, and preferences rule in tracking things. What works for me might now work for you, but you should try it all at least once to see if some ideas might work out for you. Don't say they sound good to you just because somebody else suggests them. It has to sound right to you for it to be right.

I would in the future though stay away from laying open back amps on the their back! ;) They are sort of designed to have an open back you know. :) Fender isn't just trying to find a way to save a few cents on wood when they make an open back. :D

(you better take the above as the chiding you DESERVE! ;))

Ed
 
I had a similar prob when recording our guitarist who plays a lot of distorted palm muted stuff... As we had the same problem in two COMPLETELY different rooms, I assume that it is not the room. The muted stuff simply was twice as loud a sthe rest...

I 'solved' the thing with compression at mixdown, but would be curious if there was a better way... BTW I close miced the amp (some 10cm) - yesterday did some recording with the mic some 50 cm away, and that problem was gone, BUT: other amp, other box, so I don't know what it really was...

aXel
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top