Studio Projects C1

[slobbermonster]

From there, Slobber got a little testy and started tangling with some of these guys

I'm a cranky little b**ch. The thing I find quite irritating is that anyone who says the C1 or other SP chinese mic has a certain "issue" like being harsh in the highs are accused of not knowing what they are doing or they don't know how to record correctly. I do this so I can eat so I think I have a slight idea what I'm doing and I also have a home studio.

Check this quote out:
Strave said:

I just got my C1 in the mail. Set it up with a band I was recording... female vocals. The nice metallic shockmount and large mic was just plain impressive looking. She sang. It sounded like shit. It sounded horrible. There was a hissing high end grossness and it was just plain unpleasent.

That was and has been my experience with this mic. Now I've had a recent hearing test and I can still hear up to 20k (dog ears) which most humans can't so maybe that's why some of us notice these things. OR FOR the benefit of the doubt for Alan cuz he seems like a straight up guy with a good sense of humor (re: that c1 mic test I posted) I may have a mic that's not working as well as most of the C1's

 

[philboyd studge]

I am sorry to dissapoint you on this, but they have been used on lead vocals. The last album Dave Mason did was all done on the C1. Sure, Dave is an old timer, but he used it. Tina Turner used the C1 on several cuts on her CD as well. The list goes on, but I am not trying to change your mind. Now the T3 is more widely used for this than the C1, but the C1 has put out some impressive tracks.

Some things work for people, and some things don't. I don't lose sleep over it, and you should not either. You use what works for you, and that is fine by me.... I have no problems with your experiences....

Hi Alan, looks like this forum hasn't changed much, I like the cave better. Anyway I've got two early C1's and they've been great. Beyond vocals I've often used them on a variety of acoustic instruments instead of sd's. Banjo seems to be the only thing I can't get a good sound from the C-1's.

No intensions of looking at anything else anytime soon.

 

[DJL]

Cut him some slack dude, he's being very restrained given his feelings. A new man, I tell you!

You can bet the farm on that... he has no idea how hard it is for me not to speak up about this... but we know what would happen if I said anything against PMI-AG. Anyway... thanks for the kind words.

Hey cressrock, you proved your piont. I hope you enjoy your payoff... oops, I mean new tube mic.

 

[arcanemethods]

As for Chinese mic harshness, there can indeed be a bit of that, but with the right pre and some knowledge of EQ can take care of much of that. Also, many of us have been conditioned -- by this very forum -- to expect that harshness. So what do we get? Surprise, surprise.

Has anybody attempted to quantify this "harshness"? Is it too bright, to distorted, what? If it can be heard it can be measured.


Bob

 

[Big Kenny]

It is a "bump" in the higher frequencies. It is helpful to some voices, real nice for others and a disaster for folks (women usually) who naturally have a peak there without a boost. Neat tool to have in your collection.

 

[sdelsolray]

It is a "bump" in the higher frequencies. It is helpful to some voices, real nice for others and a disaster for folks (women usually) who naturally have a peak there without a boost. Neat tool to have in your collection.

It's more than the "bump" at certain frequencies. There's some distortion going on (not even ordered harmonics) that affects the perception of its fundamental frequency. I've heard mics that have bumps, but don't have this additional feature. Perhaps not as exciting sounding, but could be described as smoother.

 

[Gidge]

You can bet the farm on that... he has no idea how hard it is for me not to speak up about this... but we know what would happen if I said anything against PMI-AG. Anyway... thanks for the kind words.

Dude I know more than anyone.....I was head of the spam police long before you got here lol......and i take my shot at Alan from time to time......but not EACH and EVERY time SP is mentioned in a post.......

 

[arcanemethods]

It's more than the "bump" at certain frequencies. There's some distortion going on (not even ordered harmonics) that affects the perception of its fundamental frequency. I've heard mics that have bumps, but don't have this additional feature. Perhaps not as exciting sounding, but could be described as smoother.

Since all harmonics of frquencies above 10 kHz are inaudible, this means that there is distortion in the lower octave that spills up into the higher ones, right?

If it were just a bump then it's a non problem with decent EQ but non-linearity is another matter. It's sorta hard to see, however, where non-linearity would come from given the simplicity of the moving part in a condenser mic.


Bob

 

[Strave]

Since all harmonics of frquencies above 10 kHz are inaudible, this means that there is distortion in the lower octave that spills up into the higher ones, right?

Harmonics above 10 kHz are audible. Maybe not as you get older... Sin wave, pulse wave, and square wave tones above 10 kHz are audible to me, as well as their respective beginning overtones. Download Pd (pure data) for free and experiment with it. Create an oscillator... osc~ or phasor~ and have it read from some different waves and set the frequency above 10 kHz... you'll hear it.

 

[wilkee]

Harmonics above 10 kHz are audible. Maybe not as you get older....

I think he means the harmonics of fundamental frequncies above 10Khz etc.

Tony.

 

[Strave]

But is that true? I don't think so. For example... a 5th above 10,000 Hz would be 15,000 Hz (3/2)... the TV sweep is at 15,600 or so and I definately hear that. Maybe they are indistinguishable when just listening to the tone... but altering harmonics in a tone above 10,000 Hz definately changes the tone's timbre and they do become apparent. I guess I'm saying I disagree... anybody here that can shed some light on this?

 

[chrono9000gi]

Harmonics of fundamentals >= 10kHz

The first harmonic is an octave up, or 20kHz for a fundamental of 10kHz. The second harmonic is indeed a perfect 5th, or 3/2, but of the first harmonic, not of the fundamental, which for a fundamental frequency of 10k would be 30k. If there's non-harmonic noise, of course, it could be at any frequency.

 

[noisedude]

DJL - I like that we can disagree but we don't need to fight about it

I keep meaning to buy a digital camera so I can prove to you I'm not Alan! lol

 

[robgb]

It's nice to see that Alan and Chessrock have kissed and made up, but I gotta say that the situation Chessrock describes about his work in the studio does not, to me, sound like "home recording." It sounds like he's involved in pro -- albiet low budget -- recording.

What is good or even great for the home guys is not going to be the same for the pro guys, so what's the point in arguing about it? Pro guys have certain standards that they've been conditioned to believe are important, while home guys have completely different standards.

I thought this forum was about home recording. Opinions from pro guys are certainly welcome, but should be taken in the proper context. And I would think that they might consider approaching their posts with a different mindset. Instead of bashing a product because THEY wouldn't use it in their pro studio, why not try to approach it from a home recording attitude before jumping in for the big smear. Is it good for HOME recording.

And it might help for the pro to tell the home guys HOW they might make use of an inferior piece of gear to make it SOUND better.

If taken from the proper perspective, there are many fine "Chinese" mics out there. Mics that can help even the home recordist get that "pro" sound. To expect a home recordist to pay thousands of dollars to get that sound is ridiculous. The Chinese mics come close enough that the price difference is simply not warranted.

Will it sound like something coming out of a top studio? Of course not. But does anyone who is involved in home recording seriously think it will? Doubtful.

That said, I think Chessrock needs to go back to his first post and reassess his historical rewriting of this thread. There was a certain glee in his posts -- a kind of fuck-you-studio-projects glee that seems to indicate that what's more important to him is getting off on bashing rather than helping. In other words, flame bait. And it seems to me he got what he wanted.

Sue me if I think it's more important to help people. That help includes warnings against a piece of equipment you've had a bad experience with, taken within the context of home recording, not pro recording.

And it certainly does NOT include wholesale bashing of a product simply because you get off on it.

 

[cellardweller]

I REPEAT.

CONTEXT=$80 I PAID FOR MY SPB1 NEW!!!!

How can you go wrong?

 

[chessrock]

That said, I think Chessrock needs to go back to his first post and reassess his historical rewriting of this thread. There was a certain glee in his posts -- a kind of fuck-you-studio-projects glee that seems to indicate that what's more important to him is getting off on bashing rather than helping. In other words, flame bait. And it seems to me he got what he wanted.

You are right, to an extent. There was, in fact, a great deal of glee, but it was more due to the fact that I am now going to be a proud owner of a Brent-Casey-moded T-3 very shortly.

Seriously, though, Robgg, I think my posts are often misconstrued in regards to the whole SP thing. But the bulk of my argument has always been pretty much exactly what you just got done saying in your post. I don't "bash" entry-level gear ... I just point it out for what it is (in my opinion). There's a difference between that and "bashing." Although granted, there might be a fine line.

And I suppose I do have a certain amount of glee in pointing this out when people make wild claims about it (i.e. "the record companies don't even know the difference"). Statements like that are fully-deserving of the Chessrock "welcome to the board" treatment.

But you also might notice I'm pretty quick to point out what I think is a more higher-grade tool, as well. I've said many times I think the T-3 is a professional-grade tool. So I guess you could also call me a Hyatt-lover or an SP worshipper or whatever. Where the disconnect seems to be occuring is when individuals confuse people's criticisms or classifications of a mic with "bashing" it. Am I insulting your car by saying it's not in the same class as a Ferari? Am I insulting your girlfriend/wife by saying she's not as hot as Brook Burke?

 

[alanhyatt]

Ok, this last page has been good so far. Sorry Chessrock, you are not going to collect that mic just yet.

I like the discussions without the attitude...

Now, please for those of you who will say I am marketing, put that behind for a minute. The reason the C1 is bright is based on several facts. There is more energy happening at the 10 to 12K frequencies, so it is louder there making that range stand out, but this can be good or bad depending on what you are trying to accomplish.

Reducing the energy at that frequency is not a problem to eliminate. You reduce the amount of holes on the backplate, work some voltages and there you go.

This has been the trait of the C Series, but we are moving on to other things. The CS Series will not have the energy level at 10 to 12K, so the mic will sound much different, as will the E Series.

Most of the differences between microphones is capsules, their design, and their build. Everything about a capsule effects the sound of it. Backplate, rings, spacers, the way the holes are drilled, the pattern of the hole, the amount of holes, the mylar, the way it is tensioned. Change one little thing, and it sounds different.

So bright, Dark, Warm, Smooth, harsh can all be good or bad, and yet the differance between them could be something very small......

 

[slobbermonster]

So Alan if I send you my c1 can it be modifyed to sound a little better or is the cost too prohibitive?

 

[chessrock]

Ok, this last page has been good so far. Sorry Chessrock, you are not going to collect that mic just yet.

That's fine. I realize those mods can take several weeks, sometimes. We don't want to rush Brent or anything. Let him do his thing.

 

[Big Kenny]

I'd like to collect that mic too but I forgot what I would have to do. In the words of Emily Latella...never mind