Stuck. I don't know how to record...

[Dr. Varney]

Okay, I was looking for some hardware so that I could record guitar. I was looking for some no-nonsense hardware, such as a standalone recording station . I asked what I should purchase in another forum and everyone advised me to stick with the PC and upgrade it.

I said all I wanted was a simple way of recording a few instruments. That I didn't mind using tape, if I had to. I was told over and over that sticking with the PC gave me more options, more versatility, etc, etc... I've spent my money and I've just ended up more confused than ever!

I ended up taking their advice and after a whole month of virtual knob twiddling and button pressing, I still haven't managed to make a decent recording.

So in desperation, I've come to see what advice you guys could offer...

I have this:

- AMD Athlon 64 processor
- 2.41 GHz, 1.00 GB RAM
- 360 GB SATA hard drive (system)
- 500 GB USB Ext. hard drive (storage)
- Creative Professional E=MU 0404 sound card

- DSP Patchmix
- Steinberg Cubase LE
- Cakewalk Sonar LE
- Wavelab Light
- FL Studio 8 (Producer Edition)


- Behringer Eurorack UB1204FX-PRO mixing desk (with Phantom Power and onboard FX)
- Yamaha Pacifica guitar 112
- Lots of assorted cables + guitar tuner etc.

___________________________________________________________

So far I'm finding the likes of Cubase, Sonar, et-al far too complicated for me. I'd already dabbled with FL Studio 8 because it is user friendly. I was hoping I could get to grips with some basic studio work with this...

The main problem is, I don't understand this:

Any of it. I've gone here... http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov05/articles/emupatchmix.htm but I'm still mystified because the author assumes the reader has some knowledge of basic terms in audio recording. I don't know even the most basic things.

It seems what I need are definitions of: 'send' 'aux' 'return' 'bus' 'SPDIF' and all that talk. I only understand half of the Behringer mixer too.

To get the mixer itself hooked up physically, I consulted this: http://www.tweakheadz.com/how_to_hookup_a_mixer.htm

So I think I have that right. My main 'out' signal goes through the 'alt-3-4 bus' (whatever that means).

________________________________________________________________

Now when I come to record in FL Studio, it always asks me to select a source. I get a list of things I recognise from the DSP Patchmix, but I don't know which one to select. I've tried a few and all I seem to get is a very VERY low recording, which sounds distant and too quiet to hear. Other times, I just get nothing.

Hell... Where do I start? I feel like selling the sound card and buying some kind of guitar recorder like this instead: http://www.reidys.com/index.pl?submit=View_PLU&PLU=9896 but something inside tells me that would be stupid, because I possess gear that other people seem quite happy with. I just need to learn how to use it, but I feel overwhelmed by the complexity of it all. I figured getting into conversation with some experienced guys might help lift the dark cloud.

Can anyone help?

Kind regards

Dr. V

 

[braden_]

what mics?

 

[kcearl]

Are you managing to get any sound out of Sonar?


Can you record already, anything?


Have you disabled your PCs original soundcard?


(More importantly) What are you using to amplify your guitar?


I can talk you through Sonar as its the software Im used to

To set up your soundcard click on options and choose audio...make sure the E-MU drivers are selected and that it is your main playback record timing master..

Insert an audio track ( right click on the left hand side bar)...make sure the little echo button in between the R and RD button is litten

Beneath the letter make sure that the input (I) and output (O) are both set to your soundcard

the green bar should move showing you have some volume..any soft amps can be inserted into the FX bin by right clicking and choosing audio fx..as here where Ive inserted Pod Farm

To record press the R the the red record dot on the transport bar (Play, Stop, Rewind bar)

Thats assuming your mixer is set up properly

If the above doesnt work we can go through the mixer (sorry if this is a bit simplistic)

 

[c7sus]

When it asks for the audio source you want to choose the Emu.

That's your soundcard.

Pick whichever input on the Emu you are using.

I think if you drew up a diagram of how you have your system connected together it might help you understand the signal flow through the mic > preamp (if you have one) > the mixer > Emu soundcard > DAW.

You are light years ahead with the PC setup over a tape setup. But there is a bit of a learning curve.

 

[gcapel]

It is very typical to not have overnight success. There are some fundamentals you have to learn first before laying the first track. The reason the software seems complicated is because it has to be.

I would be more specific to a single question. Tackle one thing at a time.

An audio track in Cubase is a destination. It has to know the source. Cubase also has to know what device you are using to pass audio from analog to digital and vice versa.

Computers are great but you have to tell them what to do.

 

[Jim Lad]

Download a free trial of Mixcraft 4.
http://www.acoustica.com/download.htm
It's made for folks like us.
I use the Korg D3200 stand alone to record, by the way but then transfer the files immediately into Mixcraft for editing.
Nothing records like a recorder and computers are far more superior for editing purposes.
I embrace both.

 

[miroslav]

The reason the software seems complicated is because it has to be.

I usually find that complicated audio recording software (and a lot of other applications)...are often complicated because they are poorly written.
The programmers are often too focused on functionality, and they fall short on basic intuitiveness and user friendliness.

Dr. Varney

Start by stripping away some of that stuff. You have more than one application that records audio. Pick one and ignore...or better yet, remove the others from your PC (so there aren't any conflicts).
Also...forget the DSP stuff. Don't be concerned about any processing or plug-ins in the beginning (at least not until you get a few tracks recorded).

Then...plug in your guitar and try getting one track into your chosen DAW app.

You have to roll up your sleeves and work the problem...read the manual, the help files...hit the forum for that application...etc.
It's not rocket science...but yeah, when you first dive in it can be intimidating.

Personally...had you asked me BEFORE you bought all that stuff...
...I would have suggested you get a nice little 8-track tape deck and small mixer and then work on recording basics...
…something a lot of current young “recordists” fail to do, and then they assume the software will take care of those things for them automatically.

 

[Kingofpain678]

i remember when i very first started recording my friends dad gave me his old copy of sonar. it was like version 6 or something. but man was it confusing....

if your having trouble with the behringer mixer and the emu sound card send me an IM and ill help you out cause im using a behringer mixer almost like yours and i have the emu1212m which uses the DSP software just like the 0404.

i also suggest you download a free trial of mixcraft 4 (http://www.acoustica.com/download.htm) like jim lad said. its much easier to work with.

 

[kcearl]

i remember when i very first started recording my friends dad gave me his old copy of sonar. it was like version 6 or something. but man was it confusing....

if your having trouble with the behringer mixer and the emu sound card send me an IM and ill help you out cause im using a behringer mixer almost like yours and i have the emu1212m which uses the DSP software just like the 0404.

i also suggest you download a free trial of mixcraft 4 (http://www.acoustica.com/download.htm) like jim lad said. its much easier to work with.

I agree with you about the software seeming confusing at first...sometimes a simpler programme is all you need, but I do think you get out what you put into something...
when I got Sonar 8 I spent the first month pretty much reading and finding out what everything did. Not everybody has the same amount of free time as me granted but I reckon if you're in it for the long term a programme that's a bit challenging just now will give more benefit further down the line..

Sonar Power's a great book and so is Guerilla Home Recording for everything outside the software

But like miroslav said whatever you do just pick one and stick with it...no point in getting hours under your belt on a sequencer you change because it becomes a bit challenging

 

[Armistice]

I feel your pain Dr although I have no advice to offer...

Years ago, when faced with the choice of upgrading my Roland VS-840 with either a standalone hard-disk recorder or a PC/Mac based DAW, I took the former path and bought a Yamaha AW4416.

Sure, I can't do heaps of stuff that I read about here, but limitations aren't a bad thing sometimes, and what I can do, relatively simply and easily, is record stuff and mix stuff.

Unfortunately I think the standalone HD recorder sort of peaked at that machine - or perhaps none of my local shops deal with them any more - and it's all software etc.

Good luck with it.. I'm sure you'll work it all out with the help of the good folks here... I'm just glad I don't have to!

 

[gcapel]

I usually find that complicated audio recording software (and a lot of other applications)...are often complicated because they are poorly written.
The programmers are often too focused on functionality, and they fall short on basic intuitiveness and user friendliness.

The key word there is functionality. You have to realize also that there is a reason terminology and layout are different from one software package to another. If they were all the same someone would be out of buisness.

My point is if you cant understand the fuctionality or you don't want to learn you should find another hobbie or like you said use a tape machine.

 

[Dr. Varney]

This is a fantastic response guys... Many, many thanks!!!

So sorry I have not replied up till now. You must think me awfully rude, but I am grateful to you all for taking the time. I've been away on a marathon job you see and so decided to leave the problem until the work was over and I was back with some time to devote to learning this.

Not much I can say right this minute, as there's a LOT to go through there but I'm reading through every post meticulously and going to try some of those suggestions.

Catch you later...

Dr. V

 

[Bristol Posse]

I'm suprised no one mentioned this yet but you should read tweak's guide.

http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

This is a very comprehensive online source that is great reading for getting started to just understand the terminology and to see what does what and how it all works together

 

[Dr. Varney]

Right, I'll say this. I was TOTALLY bemused by Photoshop ten or fifteen years ago, but I stuck with it and now, I don't think there's any part of it I don't understand. Basically, the moment I got to grips with the concept of layers, was the moment I could really push on, so I'm getting ready to have another bash at Sonar and see what can be achieved.

I totally agree, you have to get into something and really stick with it, methodically and patiently. What gives me hope is that I stuck with Photoshop and got where I am now so I have hope that I will conquer whatever DAW I choose to persue.

Question - which DAW, of the ones I mentioned, would you recommend sticking with? Okay, I'm feeling drawn to Sonar, as someone else said it was similar in operation to Pro Tools (which I understand is industry standard?). As I said, I also have Cubase. Are there any fundamental differences I should be aware of?

I don't mind putting in the hours, learning a complex app. if it is going to get good results but I have to admit, I felt really at sea when I took my first look at Sonar.

Dr. V

 

[dastrick]

Any modern DAW (Sonar, Cubase, Reaper, Logic, etc) will do pretty much the same thing and should fit your needs fine. If you are drawn to Sonar, there is no reason not to use it.

Have you been able to record anything?

 

[Dr. Varney]

To be honest, Dastrick, I haven't had chance to try anything since I wrote the first post. It's all down to finding the time. Tomorrow evening I'm free and a musician friend is coming round to have a look over it with me.

 

[kcearl]

What ever one you choose don't chop and change when you hit a brick wall...if you're using sonar there's a forum here for it as well as asking questions in this forum..

You can also sign up here

www.cakewalk.com

the others have their own forums too and are equally as good...just stick with it mate..took me a wee while too

 

[Simbo]

Missing some info

1 what Mic are you using

2 Is the signal reaching the board, while you play

3 how it the board connected to the PC (soundcard, USB, firewire)

4 are the settings in DAW set for how you have it hooked up.

 

[Dr. Varney]

Missing some info

1 what Mic are you using

An ordinary hand-held mic (on a stand). Not a phantom power one. Don't know how else to describe it.

2 Is the signal reaching the board, while you play

What do you mean by 'the board'?

Sometimes I get some kind of result. This depends on the state of the DSP mixer (there are a lot of choices there) and I'm seeing meter activity, so yes - it must be reaching the soundcard.

I have managed to record something; a low signal, into Cubase and into FL Studio. It was a very quiet recording and now I can't remember how I did this.

3 how it the board connected to the PC (soundcard, USB, firewire)

Basically, mic and guitar connect to strips of the mixing desk, which in turn connects to the input of the sound card, via the alt 3-4 bus. The outputs of the soundcard go via two phono cables, to a line-level input.

Can hear music, when using ordinary sound applications, such as through my browser or media player - but again, this depends on the state of the DSP, which for me, is hit and miss.

4 are the settings in DAW set for how you have it hooked up.

No idea. Wouldn't know where to start answering that.

 

[Dr. Varney]

Okay, lets take this a step at a time.

I'm currently in Help. Help tells me to open a tutorial document, from my Cakewalk Program Files directory. I have loaded Tutorial 1.

Next...

To Enable Audio Outputs
Select Options-Audio from the menu.
The Audio Options dialog box appears.
Click on the Drivers tab in the Audio Options dialog box.
In the Output Drivers field, select the drivers you want enabled. All enabled drivers appear highlighted.
Click OK.

So I get a list which goes like this:

Input Drivers
1. E-MU ASIO PCI Card In L
2.E-MU ASIO PCI Card In R
3.E-MU ASIO Aux 1L
4. E-MU ASIO PCI Card S/PDIF In L

Output Drivers
1. E-MU ASIO ASIO1/2
2. E-MU ASIO ASIO3/4
3. E-MU ASIO ASIO OUT 5 / 6
4. E-MU ASIO ASIO OUT 7 / 8

Questions:

1) Which 'audio drivers' do I need enabled - and why?
2) What does ASIO stand for?
3) What does S/PDIF stand for?
4) In what sense are they called 'drivers'? What do they actually do if I select them to be enabled?

-----------------------------------------------------------
I think maybe if I can get this first lot of questions answered, I should be able to move onto the next step...