Stock vs. Modified Oktava MK-012s mp3s

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Flatpicker

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Here we go again. A few months ago I put up a thread with mp3s comparing a stock and modified version of the MK-012 via the Scott Dorsey article in Recording magazine (October issue?). However, in those examples I left off the crucial step of changing the coupling capacitor between the FET and the output transistor.

This cap was originally a 1uF tantalum or electrolytic. Scott suggested changing it to a 10uF tantalum. Here’s there mp3s of the same mic/capsule - one stock, one fully modded using a 10uF tantalum coupling cap and one fully modded using a 10uF electrolytic coupling cap. See what you think.

Oktava MK-012 stock
Oktava MK-012 modified using a 10uF tantalum coupling cap
Oktava MK-012 modified using a 10uF electrolytic coupling cap
 
Take what I say with a grain of salt - I have tarnished brass ears.

First, I think there was more variation in the playing of each cut than there were in the mics.

I liked the tantalum least - the treble strings sounded thin to me. I liked the stock mic best - fuller and richer in general.

Maybe wav files would make the differences more apparent.

They all sounded good - how did you position them/where in the room/what guitar?
 
crazydoc said:
First, I think there was more variation in the playing of each cut than there were in the mics.
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Someone at another forum’s already accused me of that. ;)

The reply is no, there's no variations in playing. There really is that much difference in mic sounds. I used the same guitar (rosewood dreadnought), same pick, same position for both guitar and mic. I even measured the distance with a ruler each time. The mic was exactly 11" straight out from the center of the guitar where the fretboard ends. The mic stand remained in the same position for each test.

Obviously the timing was a little different, but the picking attack was the same. The mods did change the dynamic response and I think that's what your hearing.

Anyway, there’s more than a difference in tone and dynamics between stock and modded. See if you can tell what it is.
 
I like the MK-012 with the electrolytic sample the best. It has a slightly nicer top-end than the stock MK-012 sample but still natural like the stock MK-012 sample. Also, it has a much more enjoyable low-end and not tubby or muddy or have a build-up in the very low mids as the stock MK-012 sample.

I find the MK-012 with the tantalum sample to sound a tiny bit unnatural in the top-end with a bit of more pick noise. It's low-end is close to MK-012 with the electrolytic, but it still has a bit of trace of the very low-mid build-up.
 
Good one Flatpicker!

I liked the best with electrolitic. It has much more resolution--you can hear more overtones, and buzzing sounds of the strings also suggest it. The least I liked with 10Mf tantalum--it is more congested (no wonder with this stuff). Did your stock come with tantalum 1Mf or electrolitic one?
How long did you brake it in?
I would like to see the Scott's article if you have it. Did you change 68Mf as well? It is very important, as this one is in signal chain.

BTW, do you remember about picture of ribbon Oktava? I'd like to see it's guts. ;)
 
Hey RE, Marik. You guys heard it like I did. The other thing I noticed different (other than the dynamics and tone) about the one with the 10uF ele is that it's more open and 3D sounding than the others. Goes to show that an open, airy sound isn't just in the capsule. Also, this is just a cheap ele I had lying around. I need to try a good Panasonic. I'll also try a good 0.1uF in parallel and see what that does.

Marik, I did take pics of the MKL-52 for you when I had it open, but I didn't view them until I'd put it back together. Later when I viewed them, they were blurry and I realized I'd forgotten to change the camera to "close-up" mode. (Doh!) Anyways, as soon as I get around to taking it apart again, I snap some good pics for you. ;)

Next up will be cap upgrades for a MXL V93 (same as a 2003) and a MXL 603. The rest of the circuit in these look good - just poor caps in the signal path.

I need to order some more parts. :p
 
The stock cut certainly has more noise than the other two - is this the mic self-noise? The tantalum is slightly better than the electrolytic in this regard.
 
crazydoc said:
The stock cut certainly has more noise than the other two - is this the mic self-noise? The tantalum is slightly better than the electrolytic in this regard.
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Probably caused by the old FET. I think both FETs "sound" basically the same, but the 2SK170 is less noisier for sure.
 
<Anyways, as soon as I get around to taking it apart again, I snap some good pics for you.>

Thank you! No sweat.

Just a couple more thoughts. For somebody this difference seems not that big, but that's the difference which in comercial mics cost a few hundred $$$ at least. The resolution is the thing which makes the sound airy and 3D. Good parts are responsible for that.

Flatpicker, don't be cheap! Forget Panasonic stuff--go for Black Gates--NX or N series when there is enough room, or PK for small bodies. Polipropylenes would be even better when the values are not too high.
 
Marik said:
Flatpicker, don't be cheap! Forget Panasonic stuff--go for Black Gates--NX or N series when there is enough room, or PK for small bodies. Polipropylenes would be even better when the values are not too high.
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Yeah, I need to try those Blackgates. Which polypropylenes do you use?
 
<Which polypropylenes do you use?>

I tried many of "audiophil" ones--infinicaps, wondercaps, auricaps, multicaps... To be honest, I never could hear much difference between them. Lately, I am using Kimber Kaps--they sound very good and seem to be smaller.
 
Marik said:
Did your stock come with tantalum 1Mf or electrolitic one?
How long did you brake it in?
I would like to see the Scott's article if you have it. Did you change 68Mf as well? It is very important, as this one is in signal chain.
Click to expand...
I didn't answer all your questions, did I?

One came stock with a tantalum, the other two with an ele.

I didn't spend much time breaking it in, 15 min or so.

The article is copyrighted but even if it wasn't I don't have a scanner, believe it or not! (adding it to my list of things to buy...) The back issues are only ~$4 and it’s the September issue, btw, not October.

I didn't mess with the 68uF because it and the other eles look like the better Phillips caps they've been using lately. Scott said if it was to leave it be because there wouldn't be any difference. I think only one of the 68uFs affect the sound anyway and that's only if you're using a transformer coupled pre. (You'd have to see the schematic to see this). I only changed the 680pF, the FET, the 680M (or 1G) resisters, and the 1uF. Everything else looked fine in mine.
 
Don't everyone speak all at once! ;)

Anyone else want to share their opinion? If so, step right up and have at it. I'd love to hear what you like, don't like, or what you would like. I'm not finished modding them yet... :D
 
FP,

When I finish the re-connecting exercise here I may have audio available on my PC again.........then I will have a listen and decide whether to open up my 012's.

:cool:
 
I just received the parts to do mods to my

Oktava MK012
Oktava MK219's
MCA SP1

I'll let you know how it goes
 
I think there is not much more left there to modify. It has so few parts... I am still debating with myself if it is worth to put in a tube. The reason is even not that tube might sound better, but I could get more polarizing voltage on the diaphragm--something tells me that it might be little bit 'starving', and increasing it to 60V could be a good idea. I will probably try it when I have some time.

Once again Flatpicker, thank you for posting the link in SP C-1 tread:

http://testing.holmerup.biz/mic_pretest/MP3index_en.html

It is probably one of the best links for research about mics, and I will definitely spend many hours studing it again and again.
Now, listen once more to the difference between stock 012 and modified one (BTW, record the same tune you made, after about 30 hours of breaking in). And now--that's important part--listen to the difference between ECM8000 and Earthworks QTC1. Do you see what I mean and where I am leading? (Little hint--try to guess what's gonna be my next purchase ;) ). I think the ECM8000 is a transformer design. Considering its $39 price tag you can imagine what kind of tranny they use :rolleyes:. So, I will see what I can do.

Wow, the transient response of M30 is just absolutely crazy...
 
Marik said:
Once again Flatpicker, thank you for posting the link in SP C-1 tread...
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Glad you could use it. I'm embarrassed to say I forgot where and who originally posted that.

Thanks for all the tips!

I'm gonna hafta check out the ECM8000.
 
Wanna modify my ECM8000 for me Flatpicker? I could probably do it, but I'd rather pay you to play with it... It's an amazing mic for the tiny bit it costs, but the noise makes it unusable on a solo classical or acoustic guitar at ear-level pointed straight-down at the side of the body, just peeking-over the edge at the strings; where I like this mic most. I need a MUCH lower noise-floor for that!
 
My ECM's are relatively quiet except at high gain settings, but I'd be interested in anything that may help improve them.

:cool:
 
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